Possibility of telepathy (information theory)

[f***@beethoven.com]

[Read the rest of the thread in sci.skeptip]

(I didn't finish the carrer: I finished the science instead)
[See how this last possibility works through the Theory of Beliefs
(ny.general), when it comes to creating a social reality or reality by
consensus, as opposed to actual (reak) REality or physical/factual
Reality. This is the process through which mores, morals, sane and
insane practices, genocides, kingdoms, etc. may be explained in
particular cases]
It is important to consider that the differences between individuals
make for very strong telepaths and weak telepaths, all of them relying
on the encoding of the signals. Since a field is assumed, it should be
easy to see that some strongn telepaths can actually generate a field
that would "magnetize" lesser telepaths, and yet use thir processing
power, so to say, to decode and "digest" the signal... they would act
as anthenas...

What must be acknowledged is that telepathy as a natural function of
the brain depends on the unconscious subsytem that receives and decodes
the signals being connected with the rational language processing
subsystem of the brain; the brain must pay attention instead of
disregarding the signals as mere noise, a natural process given that we
rely since children on spoken language, therefore linking through
learning the labguage processing areas to the rational, aware,
conscious cortex. But the moment a strong telepath begins sending
actual messages, that is, the moment the mesages are so specific that
the mind no longer can ignore, the brain of the target begins
generating the necessary activations that linked the 'unused",
unconscious reception and decoding areas with the attentive cortex. THe
more persisten are the messages, the more possibilities of learning
there are, particluarly if the victim attempts to answer the messages
(do not confuses them with "I heard something" experiences) and
therefore establishes this directed learning patetrns (see any text on
neural network model training). In other words: telepaths are trained
by other telepaths, which makes obvious that even if drugs, fear,
adrenaline and other triggers may actually force the brain to make use
of this unused functions, there are many ways to acquire the ability
even if only temporarily. Telepathy as a test of drug use is a weak
proof, not a strong proof, since telepaths can actually turn somebody
into a telepath...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[fungus]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
telepaths can actually turn somebody
into a telepath...

This sounds like a good candidate for the JREF.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
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/ O O \
\_____/ FTB. For email, remove my socks.

In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know
that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,'
and then they actually change their minds and you never
hear that old view from them again. They really do it.
It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists
are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens
every day. I cannot recall the last time something like
that happened in politics or religion.

- Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP keynote address

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
[Read the rest of the thread in sci.skeptip]

(I didn't finish the carrer: I finished the science instead)
[See how this last possibility works through the Theory of Beliefs
(ny.general), when it comes to creating a social reality or reality by
consensus, as opposed to actual (reak) REality or physical/factual
Reality. This is the process through which mores, morals, sane and
insane practices, genocides, kingdoms, etc. may be explained in
particular cases]
It is important to consider that the differences between individuals
make for very strong telepaths and weak telepaths, all of them relying
on the encoding of the signals. Since a field is assumed, it should be
easy to see that some strongn telepaths can actually generate a field
that would "magnetize" lesser telepaths, and yet use thir processing
power, so to say, to decode and "digest" the signal... they would act
as anthenas...

What must be acknowledged is that telepathy as a natural function of
the brain depends on the unconscious subsytem that receives and decodes
the signals being connected with the rational language processing
subsystem of the brain; the brain must pay attention instead of
disregarding the signals as mere noise, a natural process given that we
rely since children on spoken language, therefore linking through
learning the labguage processing areas to the rational, aware,
conscious cortex. But the moment a strong telepath begins sending
actual messages, that is, the moment the mesages are so specific that
the mind no longer can ignore, the brain of the target begins
generating the necessary activations that linked the 'unused",
unconscious reception and decoding areas with the attentive cortex. THe
more persisten are the messages, the more possibilities of learning
there are, particluarly if the victim attempts to answer the messages
(do not confuses them with "I heard something" experiences) and
therefore establishes this directed learning patetrns (see any text on
neural network model training). In other words: telepaths are trained
by other telepaths, which makes obvious that even if drugs, fear,
adrenaline and other triggers may actually force the brain to make use
of this unused functions, there are many ways to acquire the ability
even if only temporarily. Telepathy as a test of drug use is a weak
proof, not a strong proof, since telepaths can actually turn somebody
into a telepath...

But it should also be evident that given the facts of reinforced
learning and the social tabbo toward schizophrenia, it is needed a
*concerted* and *persistent* attack on the victim to actually train a
brain to emit thought, or rather, to make cognitive processes go
through the areas which can actually emit thought, and to do so
consciously (See the thread on an unified appraoch to mental
illnesses). Single sparse messages won't do the trick, as the taboo
will tend to dismiss them as a random phenomenon or rationalize them as
a badly processed noise, and the activation patterns will soon be
overwritten by the (random) workings of thought. Also note that in the
absence of feedback these same activation will soon be ovwerwritten,
forgotten, by the more used and useful aural sense. This is similar to
the reading flaw of subvolcalizing or making conscious each and every
wrod as opposed to reading automatically "within".

FabriZio J Bonsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

***@beethoven.com wrote:
But it should also be evident that given the facts of reinforced
learning and the social tabbo toward schizophrenia, it is needed a
*concerted* and *persistent* attack on the victim to actually train a
brain to emit thought, or rather, to make cognitive processes go
through the areas which can actually emit thought, and to do so
consciously (See the thread on an unified appraoch to mental
illnesses). Single sparse messages won't do the trick, as the taboo
will tend to dismiss them as a random phenomenon or rationalize them as
a badly processed noise, and the activation patterns will soon be
overwritten by the (random) workings of thought. Also note that in the
absence of feedback these same activation will soon be ovwerwritten,
forgotten, by the more used and useful aural sense. This is similar to
the reading flaw of subvocalizing or making conscious each and every
word as opposed to reading automatically "within".

What is interesting is that, given a concerted attack with feedback
leading to the training of a brain toward the use of the telepathic
subsystems, the longer this attack goes on, the more the cycle

reception-decoding-"awareness"-reply-encoding-emission

will tend to fail during decoding, since the subcycle

decoding-awareness-reply

will overload, overflow, at the awareness phase (assuming some
bandwidth, that is, a limited set of neurons and interconnections),
given that this brain subprocess is also in charge of everyday life,
and further assuming that the individual is able (or forced) to "remain
in the world", this subsidiary flow of information will increasingly be
interpreted as noise, nonessential, freeing the resources that were
previously dedicated to the processing of "ether" messages as opposed
to immediate sensory input. This phenomenon is similar to the way
repetitive noises tend to pass to the background and then be forgotten
after the first impression is catalogued as "non life threatening",
which is similar to the way a continuous sound that is just about to
end brings us to attention when there is the slightest variation in the
steady sound (sensation of "predicting" the end of the sound). This
means that the more frequent or dense are the voices, the easier (and
faster) will be for the brain to interpret them as noise, since they
would bring increasingly less information (considering that it is at
first when attention will focus on them, just before feedback and the
reply cycle is completed). This is consistent with the deleterious
effects that a totally continuous attention-awareness on a single
object would have on the survivability of the individual, since it
would be more at risk of being overrun by unexpected, unnoticed
stimuli. Attention tends to wander and keep notice of different
(sensory) stimuli. Excessive attention to "ether" messages will
eventually be replaced by normal attention on immediate stimuli. (It
would be easier to understand with a few graphics and numbers). So a
non telepath going telepath through concerted and forced brain
training, if abused, will eventually stop listening! The cycle even if
trained will cycle or reach a point of saturation, probably
irreversible, where further training is impossible since the automatic
survivability mechanisms of the brain will have reached the
"conclusion" that there is no useful information received through this
channel! This is important when it comes to sensitive celebrities
attracting the attention or receiving the influx of many emitting minds
centered on them. Depending on the speed with which the individual goes
famous, the number of negative emisors he encounters (and other
factors, again, a graphic would help here, and it links to the thread
"Schizophrenia as neurosis"), this alternate path to communication can
either be kept open for long or be closed right away through the number
of messages received. For instance, elected politicians will be less
likely to experience telepathy as schizophrenia since they would
receive lots of directed thoughts at once, reaching the point of
saturation, while professors, some actors, sportsmen, in fact, people
going famous would not reach the density of messages that would
actually train the brain to ignore this channel. [A possibility here,
though, is akin to that of the anthenas of the previous post, where
several telepathic minds kept together would actually synchronize and
emit more or less the same message, keeping the density of messages
below the saturation point for that individual]. [This may be one of
the reasons why writers use pseudonyms: to avoid their brain form
automatically receiving mesages that would decode as being pertinent to
the writers, since his own self image (what is matched against), would
not include that of the pseudonym, or the messages can be automatically
disregarded as belonging to people reading the writings and not
relevant to the authors personal life].

As an illustration, imagine a contour figure on black, where points of
white begin appearing (the messages), and eventually turn the contour
figure into a solid white figure. Points would dissapear after a while
(relevance), but if they accumulate quickly enough further points won't
be noticed before the old ones dissapear, and once white it is not
necessary to make them dissapear, as the new color would allow
different colors to be noticed (though in this case there is only one
type of messages).

This has consequences as it comes to the study and treatment of "mental
health" diseases linked to schizophrenia. (This should go in the
unified approach to mental diseases thread). First, natural schizos
will have this paths of brain subsystems connected since birth or early
childhood (autism, attention deficit disorders, hyperkinetism...),
meaning that the growing brain will be trained with a model of the
world where immediate sensory input is mixed with external, telepathic
messages, giving a very distorted view that eventually will clash with
those who are "normal", understanding that here normality means similar
viewpoints due to similar immediate stimuli and similar brain
development. Second, "schizophrenias" will develop into fullfledged
psychosis in case the messages received through this channel manage to
change the individual's cosmovision permanently and in contradiction to
the requirements of society, surrounding people or even natural
physical reality. This includes criminal conducts mainly, as well as
typical asocial and antisocial (sociopaties) conducts; note, however,
that this conducts can be the result of other individual's belief
system being modified, that is, a non telepath among telepaths would
end up presenting the same sociopath conducts if everybody else's
beliefs system changes (social consensus) preventing him from
interacting [see the "Theory of Beliefs" thread; this discusion can be
converted into a system of mean field models]. Third, some
schizophrenias will develop in the classical schisoprenic image of an
individual permanently talking to him/herself: it is this individuals
who are actually responsible as the origin of the messages,
notwithstanding that there can be silent telepaths; it is then a matter
of equilibria, since the schizophrenic diseased behaviour will be a
result of the proportion of time spent in this "communicative"
activities against the time spent in normal, immediate life activities
(lots of behaviours will be borderline and difficult to categorize,
even if there is a common sense way to distinguish true psychopaths
from individual variations within the norm)...

Danilo Jose Bonsignore, previosuly Fabrizio J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Note that the previous discussion holds in the absence of strong
telepaths, a strong telepath being a telepath who, either can emit to
long distances, can make use of paticularly free frequencies or uses
particularly efficient encodings. So the previous discussion can be
seen as layered, in the sense that it is true for certain combinations
of untrained receptors and trained emissors, or as it would be said in
Economics, ceteris paribus, keeping constant the previous elements
characterizing a strong telepath.

In terms of the previous image, this discusion holds when filling the
black contour with white paintins, but even if that particular color is
saturated, a red spot (for instance) would be notorious!

Danilo Jose Bonsignore, previosuly Fabrizio J Bonsignore
(sono il nipotino d'Angelina)

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
Note that the previous discussion holds in the absence of strong
telepaths, a strong telepath being a telepath who, either can emit to
long distances, can make use of paticularly free frequencies or uses
particularly efficient encodings. So the previous discussion can be
seen as layered, in the sense that it is true for certain combinations
of untrained receptors and trained emissors, or as it would be said in
Economics, ceteris paribus, keeping constant the previous elements
characterizing a strong telepath.
In terms of the previous image, this discusion holds when filling the
black contour with white paintins, but even if that particular color is
saturated, a red spot (for instance) would be notorious!
Danilo Jose Bonsignore, previosuly Fabrizio J Bonsignore
(sono il nipotino d'Angelina)

How paradoxical that psychosis can be a team effort! A group of linked
minds, receiving particular informations without the proper contexts
but trying to make sense of it! Or worse: the concerted effort to
create a "reality", a common set of experiences none pertaining to the
particular reality of each one... Psychosis can become then the
equilibrium of a whole group, not quite belonging to their immediate
experiences, not quite out of common reality...

[Oh, they say that the P of USA _has_ to be the most intelligent man on
Earth! So don't show intelligence, or they will Toth you thinking they
have the right and are justified to do it. I guessI have to accuse
this people of several murders, but I don't know, they don't let me
make indagations... Brave Mexico, uh? ANd I am a sane, healthy
individual with an astiunding talent for the guitar, scientific
training and engineering experience in the most developed economy of
history, but am in the streets picking up butts... Now, who is
psychotic and who is not? How would you expose the web of lies and
abuses? I am US citizen, US born, only short...]

Danilo J Bonsignore previously Fabrizio J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

***@beethoven.com wrote:
How paradoxical that psychosis can be a team effort! A group of linked
minds, receiving particular informations without the proper contexts
but trying to make sense of it! Or worse: the concerted effort to
create a "reality", a common set of experiences none pertaining to the
particular reality of each one... Psychosis can become then the
equilibrium of a whole group, not quite belonging to their immediate
experiences, not quite out of common reality...

Actually, a semantic construction, a common story. The inadequacy of
behaviour deriving from the *non-local source* of *uncorroborated*
information, considered as factum and applied to common life. But a
concerted effort by lucid minds can only affect adversely an unstable
mind, a believer (see the theory of beliefs); a lucid mind won't give
credit to the voices. Personal doubt and group agreement are essential
to the illusion of Reality and *fact* an individual can perceive of a
series of facts, whether transmitted orally (or even written) or
transmitted through the "hidden channel". A series of equilibria, a
dynamic that uses previous semantic contructions taken as pure fact
(even if uncorroborated, the issue is raised) to build a superstructure
more and more unrelated to 'real' Reality, or to facts that can be
recorded even by non-minds, automatically. It is a consequence that
solitary people cannot go crazy! For a perfect Robinson Crusoe madness
and lucidity are the difference between death and life, so a live
Crusoe is by definition a lucid individual! Even if the moment he makes
contact with others his isolation will appear as madness (perhaps an
excess of emotion?). It is the context what gives judgement of lucidity
or madness, so a medieval man in this century would be automatically
crazy, his reactions inadequate, and the same can be said of a modern
man in the court of King Arthur (both British classics in an era when
Modernity itself was being defined). So a group effort, whether
concertedly lucid (purposeful) or already demential can raise an
individual out of cotidianeity into a fantastic reality, one where
normal behaviour is totally inadequate in cotidianeity and non included
people. It is this power of voices, of telepathy, what can actually
take an average intelligent individual from a "normal" life to an
abnormal "life", from adequate behavior to abnormal behavior.

It is quite difficult to conceive of a lone individual producing
"voices" to take him into the realm of story and out of the realm of
Reality! In systems terms, it would be the equivalent of a
bootstrapping, raining him or herself from his or her own boots into a
social and personal levitation! Of course, this process can happen
without voices, without schizophrenia, by simply self-convincing of the
possibility and execution of alternate behaviors, which can be
interpreted as a search of originality, the one which, if not limited
by social judgement, can actually turn an individual into a mad
individual at most, or in the minimum sense into an "eccentric", the
term itself depicting the relation between that particular individual
and society. But eccentrics are not considered schizos; eccentrics,
even when looking crazy, are not associated to voices. What
distinguishes the real schizo, the sick telepath, from other types of
eccentric behavior and from lucid telepaths is the acceptance of a
literary construction as conduct guide by acceptance of the truth of
inner voices (distinguishable from the so called conscience inner voice
or inner dialogue) BY THE REALIZATION THAT THOSE VOICES ARE ACTUALLY
OTHER PEOPLE. It is this realization the only reason why normal people
would, ultimately, give importance and weight to the voices. Complex
web of authorities and facts that can make the target (and those within
reach too), accept an "alternate reality", a complete fantasy which, if
gone long without actual corroboration, without points of solid fact
grounding it into factual, objective reality, can eventually make the
individual derive conducts totally outside of cotidianeity, which can
go from the very ridiculous, like wearing tennis shoes with suits (sure
wish of business failure and bad taste, without considering that this
is the origin of supertition), to the cruelly criminal, the serial
killer, the cannibal, the mass rapist, the selftorturer, the suicidal
(in many ways, from believing in immortality and powers, to believing
in unbound luck, invisibility, etc.), and other conducts that without
being criminal per se can make an individual make bad decisions and
affect against hiw on well being the lives and wel being of innocent
people, as may be the case of prejudice, both personal (against a
single individual) or toward a class (the belief that *they* are bad,
mean, criminals, plotters, etc.). And all of these by the purposeful
effort of a group of telepaths!

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

So a cycle is created that like every cycle can have positive or
negative feedback. It's either closed for lack of "communication" or is
amplified for the need to communicate. Or the density of the
"conversation". By necessity this channel is limited, very similar to
the aural sense, but being distributed and non-local many can
participate. Directed thoughts, with a purpose. Isn't it known that the
voices usually insult? What can be done but answer them? And the cycle
is so closed. There are so many possibilities here that simple models
cannot hold: it has to be seen through the optic of a society, so it is
sociology which has to give the key, more than individual phenomena.
Telepathy-schizophrenia is thus a social phenomena, the reason behind
the complexity of the phenomenon and its consequences...

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

The magnitude of the phenomenon can be understood with the notion of
belief fields. Begin with, say a dozen of strong telepaths. They can
actually project their thought, much the same way as ventriloquists
project their voice (or is it actually their though what they project
and we interpret as sound?) and reach individuals who are decidedly
away and far from them. And they convince them of... what can be worth
of convincing other people of? So now we have a real field! Distributed
geographically, like radios and a central station, a favorite
configuration of, say terrorists and guerrillas, but also of churches
and even governments. An initial dozen, then another dozen and they
have already covered an enormous territory! And considering that this
ability, when not present naturally (which, of course, given the
diversity of human beings *has* to be present naturally in some
individuals), can be trained, and repeated even to the point of
automatism (pavlovian positive reinforcement, even against the will of
the individual or his self-acknowledgement). And the message is
repeated, reinforced, reinforcing both the medium (the trained brain)
and the content (the purpose). There would be entropy, of course, which
can play beautifully to those intent on making noise and disorder, but
essentially the same message can be transmitted and acted upon. And
here we have the syndrome! Individuals miles away acting the same
conducts, thanks to the repeated, pulsiong effort of a small group of
strong telepaths...

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
The magnitude of the phenomenon can be understood with the notion of
belief fields. Begin with, say a dozen of strong telepaths. They can
actually project their thought, much the same way as ventriloquists
project their voice (or is it actually their though what they project
and we interpret as sound?) and reach individuals who are decidedly
away and far from them. And they convince them of... what can be worth
of convincing other people of? So now we have a real field! Distributed
geographically, like radios and a central station, a favorite
configuration of, say terrorists and guerrillas, but also of churches
and even governments. An initial dozen, then another dozen and they
have already covered an enormous territory! And considering that this
ability, when not present naturally (which, of course, given the
diversity of human beings *has* to be present naturally in some
individuals), can be trained, and repeated even to the point of
automatism (pavlovian positive reinforcement, even against the will of
the individual or his self-acknowledgement). And the message is
repeated, reinforced, reinforcing both the medium (the trained brain)
and the content (the purpose). There would be entropy, of course, which
can play beautifully to those intent on making noise and disorder, but
essentially the same message can be transmitted and acted upon. And
here we have the syndrome! Individuals miles away acting the same
conducts, thanks to the repeated, pulsing effort of a small group of
strong telepaths...
Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

It is all a matter of convincing, of make believe. Without believing,
any purposeful message is lost in the free will of the individual. But
there are more things unknown than things known. And it is implied a
sense of power, of abiilty to project thought and make them heard bny a
sane mind (we all know we are sane). Once authority is granted, the
rest is easy! But in case it fails, authority, doubts are enough to
make act. How to be sure? How many acts will be oriented by the desire
to know? This is the trap of considering telepathy as schizophrenia as
an illness just like that. It has to be corroborated, in a double game
that once corroborotaed it gets authority! But meanwhile behaviour is
perturbed, knowledge is aquired which is, *essentially*, a belief,
getting reality form the proviously granted authority or by the
necessity to act upon it and corroborate it. ANd if individuals
believe, the possibilities are endless, for they will *know*, even if
that knowledge is not true, or *not*yet*true*. Self-fulfilled
prophecies once many people believe them and act on them and make their
consequences for good or evil be felt in the fabric of reality,.social
Reality.

Fabric is a good metaphor for this kind of fields. Several distant
points, linked by the loose fabric of radioed messages, acting in
concert, bringing more and more threads into their web til a new
consensus is reached. Can be done? Can be done! So they must act in
concert, have a plan: telepathy, more than an illness is an organized
society; nice secret had psychiatrists or they were not scientists
enough to discover it!

Because under the notion of field and knowing the workings of the
brains it is evident that the possibility exists and by accepting this
single fact a while series of unlinked realities are explained. Mind
that EM fields are three dimensional, is not the electrical current or
the 2D diagram that magnets create with nails. There is a lot of
information that can be encoded in a threed imensional fluid structure,
one that is inherently time dependant. And to the brain it is an easy
operation to perform what can be considered an inverse Fourier
transform, or the classical training of a connectionist system,
activation patterns being reinforced and reinterpreted, matchings with
previous patters, dynamic cycles caused by the effect of ambient fields
(EM, but also, maybe qauantoc, the underlying reality, or both at the
same time) till the exquisite computer of the brain is either
magnetized (convinced) or trained (new bidirectional telepath).

And rewards must be great, for the organized telepaths, if people gets
convinced and acts according to their wishes, either by inhibiting
realities (protection) or by activating realities (services)...

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

***@beethoven.com wrote:
And rewards must be great, for the organized telepaths, if people gets
convinced and acts according to their wishes, either by inhibiting
realities (protection) or by activating realities (services)...

It works in the same way as sects work, by convincing believers to be
loyal to the group, to the created reality, and do anything for the
group, even when it goes against the individual or society's (law) well
being. It must be evident that a group realizing this possibilities can
achieve power and more easily, as long as the fact is not recognized in
all its implications, as long as people keeps the voices for them as
the big secret, even the stigma, or as source of pride for being able
to "use their mind". To what purpose then? Particularly, like any other
ability, the more experimented will have the more rewards, while those
who are unable to cope with it will either end up mad, literally mad as
the disabled schizophrenic speakng to himself the whole day, unable to
be aware of surrounding reality, or will become the "losers", those who
do not fit into the game of wills to convince others to... whatever is
the issue at the moment.

It must be understood that this is a natural ability of the mind

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

***@beethoven.com wrote:
It must be understood that this is a natural ability of the mind

As was mentioned earlier, from an evolutive point of view it makes
sense for this ability to evolve. Species with enough brain capacity
will benefit and have added advantages by having this distributed non
local way of communication as a backup, so to say, to sound. It is very
convenient for predators, as its mechanisms (the encodings) make it
less detectable than sound as a way to synchronize in group activities.
So in a way basic telepathic abilities, the sense of magnetism (or more
subtle mechanisms of sensitivity to fields), should be found in all
species that live in groups and have some form of society,
notwhistanding that sound is still a more directed source of
information that the all encompassing magnetic field (Earth's magnetic
field having its origin on living beings; a way to find life in other
planets, being the consequence of the sum of connectionist systems or
brains working in a populated planet). It then makes sense to assume
that all humans possess this ability in some degree, given differences
in ethnic, intelligence, and practice.

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

And the danger must be evident now, since a wrongly assumed identity by
the receiver can give the voice a high weight at the moment of making
decisions, to the point of making the receiver assume authorities that
are note there, orders that are not orders, people who is actually
other people and who, in "normal" life would not be taken into account,
buty through the psychic channel even the smallest bit of "information"
can be appreciated as precious, as priviledged information, as self
evident truth the moment it comes "magically" from the outside and
"into" our head! Yet the mechanisms are very clear and the reality of
the phenomenon, though hidden and disguised first by lack of scientific
knowledge, then for a lack of knowledge of the mechanisms through which
it works, cannot be ignored the way it is ignored if considered just an
illness, a fact to hide the moment it begins showing (the conscious
effort of somebody else, or worse, a whole group sending messages to an
individual for ther own purposes), a fact that has to be repressed,
adding to the content of the messages the additional wight of fear,
reinforcing whatever messages is receives and, also, the inmplicit
training, the straining to react "within" and answer, that is, to
contact consciously what verbal mode will make even inaccesible to
everyday will, but which after "being shown the path"

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Which poses the problem of the origin of the messages, the source of
the particular messages a prticular individual receives. A good image
is that of concentric circles of varying color intensities, all
superimposed. A color can be considered as a semantic structure, a
belief, a set of messages and contents including assumptions on the
personality of the senders, truth values, degress of authorities... in
other words, a story that may or may not be close to the other senses'
reality, the one that can be corroborated "easily" and we use above all
to direct our lives (without considering this moment the issues
presented by Hume, which, under this light, give normal senses at least
a lesser degree of reliability than what our century is willing to
accept). The problem of the personality, of the actual identity is then
a most important aspect of this channel of communication, a key problem
as it depends on the assumed personality of the sender how much weight
will the receiver (who must be by far the most common) will give to the
messages, the degree of truth.

It is assumed that the encoding of the emitted "thoughts" can contain
enough information to make the brain "understand" several data,
including without being exhaustive, the identity of the sender, the
voice sound as emitted by the self image of the sender, the relevancy
of the message to the receiver and other qualities that depend on the
particular ability of the sender (remember that tehre must be a mapping
to understand the messages, but it is not limited only to suond, also
emotions can be transmitted, etc.)

Fabrizio J BOnsignroe now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Watch how easily mediumnity can be explained! IT is the voluntary,
through trance techniques, bypass of conscious processing subsystems so
that the subsystem Reception-Decoding-Spoken language operates
automatically exposing the words (or thoughts) of some remote telepath!
And this can be done with the witness so that his internal dialogue is
exposed! If the witness is not a telepath, yet it can be magnetized,
interrogated and made to reply without his knowledge (lots of
assumptions that can be difficult to corroborate, though the implicit
assumption is that thought processes in the core, non conscious
subsystem, cannot be accesed for lack of a direct mapping, at least not
without magnetizing the subject, that is, establishing by the act of
contact a [permanent] connection between brain subsystems).

So, Houdini exposed several frauds, but then... how many legitimate
(though of course, fraudulent exhibitions as dead people cannot be
contacted...), did he considered a fraud and exposed while being a
legitimate exhibition of telepathy...?

What ends up being suspicious is that the medium, by acting as a
telepath, is bound to magnetize the witnesses, turning them into
unwilling psychics the more asiduous they are to the mediumnic
sessions. Maybe it was the reason why the "contact with the dead" was
so popular: it would assure that only once or twice the client would
confer with the psychic. Just making suggestions... and explaining the
unwary. Though it can become a real therapeutic technique *if* the
usbject manages not to become a full duplex telepath.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[dwacon]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
So, Houdini exposed several frauds, but then... how many legitimate
(though of course, fraudulent exhibitions as dead people cannot be
contacted...), did he considered a fraud and exposed while being a
legitimate exhibition of telepathy...?

Although he exposed frauds... did he actually "expose" or confirm those who
were legit?
--
The Runaway Bride Show
http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709





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[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by dwacon

Post by f***@beethoven.com
So, Houdini exposed several frauds, but then... how many legitimate
(though of course, fraudulent exhibitions as dead people cannot be
contacted...), did he considered a fraud and exposed while being a
legitimate exhibition of telepathy...?

Although he exposed frauds... did he actually "expose" or confirm those who
were legit?

Actually haven't researched in deepness, also Conan Doyle did the same,
but it may be that once a fraud is discovered then (bad) induction is
applied and all pretensions of mediumnism are considered frauds. There
must be something in the internet about it.

Post by dwacon
--
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http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709
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[f***@beethoven.com]

How interesting that being telepathy a natural warning system, even an
atavic communication channel, superseded by language as a more
effective way to communicate huge amounts of information, this same
warning system, which must by necessity filter unwanted messages, lest
the conscious brain would be swamped by an overload of information, can
be used as a warning system for the dangers of modern life! That is,
since picked up messages (thoughts) must be somehow directed, otherwise
the individual would not receive them, organized crime plotting against
a criminal would automatically warn him, and the victim would be able
to protect him or herself (porovided he or she has the means). So,
essentially, in an all telepath society crime would be lessened,
reduced to on the spur crimes, assaults, that kind of crime, but the
well organized, mafia like criminals would not exist! Even abuses and
even the conflicts that lead to wars would be exposed at the very
beginning and solved, before they escalate... the same way disasters
can be reduced with early warning systems.

[criminales saben que no valen nada, no saben que se escucha su
amargura sobre toda su basura?]
[I wonder, why the police always warns with sirens?]

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Note how this warning ability of (natural) telepathy, what many call
the "sixth sense", that impending sense of "something happening" that
cannot be quite pointed at, lies at the source of the problem of
paranoia. The epithome of paranoia in modern folklore is the mention of
the CIA, but... as a general argument, there must be investigations,
spying, some existence of the corporation! And also the different
polices, and organized crime, and would-be criminals and even
curiousers and gossipers can engage in real spying and persecution, not
to mention governments. It means that at least some "paranoias" are
actually real conspirations, real persecution, vaguely felt through
this unacknowledged sense.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

This ability must be dormant most of the time once and fter language is
developed, learned and continuously used, except for ethnic proclivity
or individual conditions. BUt once the brain begins dying, when lots of
neurons are no longer there and the brain uses its plasticity to keep
the individual working, the path is opened to thought transmission!

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

This ability must be dormant most of the time once and fter language is
developed, learned and continuously used, except for ethnic proclivity
or individual conditions. BUt once the brain begins dying, when lots of
neurons are no longer there and the brain uses its plasticity to keep
the individual working, the path is opened to thought transmission!

So as age progresses, both by training and the need to use previously
unused areas of the brain the reception and emission areas would be
increasingly opened to the conscious mind to be used, even in the
absence of external training, that is, other telepaths reaching that
particluar individual. SO as age progresses the individual is
increasingly open to hear voices, yet at the same time, in old age, the
power to resist those voices, to avoid acting according to sources of
uncorroborated information that may be a sheer lie or have a very small
content of truth, would eventually sink the individual in what we call
dementia. Lots of effects can be expected here, depending on the
cognitive functions that lost power and their effect on the reasoning
that confronts the information received through this channel. For
instance, people with poor sight may begin confusing the voices with
actual vocal input by nearby people, confusing identities for example.
The same can be argued for the loss of other senses, particularly
hearing, and it would explain the mumbling of old people, trying to
answer the voices they hear...

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

A real problem lies here in that aged people with strong transmission
abilities, but small mobility or limited life possibilities may
actually use this ability as a way to escape frustrations, broadcasting
noxious messages and unfulfilled fantasies or even trying to control
the activities of other people, this couple with diminished cognitive
functions and judgements, a situation that may be abused and actually
become dangerous, though at the same time it can be seen as a possible
link between generations or a backbone for the propagation of culture,
again both a source of unity but also a source of resistance to
change...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

And herein lies the secret of Plato and his idealities! The philosopher
feeling himself lost in a cave from which he can only intuit the
perfect forms beyond his reach, the prefections of uncorroborated
messages given to him by the gods, making he believe in a beyond
Reality forever unreachable by the local, limited individual. ANd so
idealism was born, the belief in a superreality which is perfect and of
which we are but shadows.

And what prevents us from postulating a particularly strong generation
of telepaths that survivde to our days as the gods, expressing in their
conducts all the whims and desires of the mere humans under their
control, unable to explain the voices and therefore total believers in
whatever truth or judgement they would bring to the poor humans? Gods
and godesses, heroes and heroines, figures aggrandized beyond human
height (hence the nine heads ideal) and involved into unnecessary
conflicts created by the gods in their whims and games, where those
receiving the voices and not realizing their effect, their
possibilties, would follow blindly to go to their doom, believeing in
the Erinies, the Harpies, the Muses, special beings granting rewards ad
punishments by convincing others of the worth or unworth of the
individual subject of their attention, to their disgarce if
disobedient, to their glory if obedient, always willing to please the
god or godess in whatever ways, even turning some individuals
millionaires while other being left paupers by the will of the all
powerful gods and their perfect essences...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

What determines a strong telepath? There must be two factors at least:
efficiency of the encoding and potency of the signal, plus the
evailability of "anthenas". It must be thought of as a radio emission
framework, literally speaking. The efficiency in the encoding must be a
function of time and the number of contacts with other minds, the same
way a well developed muscle grows in size. It must be taken into
account that any signal produced by the brain affects the surrounding
fields (assuming EM transmissions), and mixes with whatever frequencies
it produced, resulting in a more or less muddy message depending on the
realtions of the signal to the surrounding signals. It must affect then
the height at which the emissor is located, and other typical factors
of EM transmission. Also, the availability of anthenas, that is, other
brains being magnetized and acting as reles would make the signal
increase in intensity and reach more people... So the mroe telepaths
are around, that is, trained brains, the more potency the signal will
have by using other people as a distributed system, almost a
distributed intelligence, even when this "help" woud be actually quite
unconscious...

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

The actual areas of the brain that participate in the transmission of
radio signals (assuming EM again; brain signals are very slow radio
waves that can travel long) should be discoverable by CAT scannings,
yet it is the top of the head where the cranium last long with an open
suture before it ossifies, incidentally ossifying at the age when
language has aleady been developed in the individual. There must be a
relation between early suture ossification and language impairments:
the earlier it ossifies, the

Can somebody understand that I am innocent and have committed no crime
but have a bunch pf corrupted, drug related policemen harassing and
blocking me, sending fraudsters in my place because they are
interceopting my mails and defamating me in DC and other countries and
courts?

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

***@beethoven.com wrote:
The actual areas of the brain that participate in the transmission of
radio signals (assuming EM again; brain signals are very slow radio
waves that can travel long) should be discoverable by CAT scannings,
yet it is the top of the head where the cranium last long with an open
suture before it ossifies, incidentally ossifying at the age when
language has aleady been developed in the individual. There must be a
relation between early suture ossification and language impairments:
the earlier it ossifies, the

more language may be impaired, while the longer it stays unossified the
better the language abilities must be. Note that this implies that the
learning baby receives lots of "language lessos" by this implicit link
with the mother and the medium, reason why babies' first words tend to
be related to the mother, as it is the first referent which can be
identified by references from other people.

There might be also a relation between the ability to transmit and
hats! For instance, the Jewish people should be historically less prone
to madness than people who wear the head without a hats. Also, a link
may be found among soldiers of all times and the wearing of hats,
though that kind of historical research may be difficult without a
thorough story of madness. Yet, it is interesting to note that during
modern wars, where soldiers wear special helmets while the civilian
population is not protected, would result in lots of schizos-tlepethas
among civilians and little cases of schizo type madness among soldiers,
this due to the anguish of the situation and the exposure of the
recepticve brain (note also that there is a big area exposed to the
medium through the skull, particularly the newcortex areas where most
of the encoding decoding must take place).

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[Uncle Al]

***@beethoven.com wrote:
[snip crap]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
There might be also a relation between the ability to transmit and
hats! For instance, the Jewish people should be historically less prone
to madness than people who wear the head without a hats.

[snip]

Hey numbnuts - they cut off the tips of their dicks. How sane is
that, idiot?

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Uncle Al
[snip crap]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
There might be also a relation between the ability to transmit and
hats! For instance, the Jewish people should be historically less prone
to madness than people who wear the head without a hats.

[snip]
Hey numbnuts - they cut off the tips of their dicks. How sane is
that, idiot?

Aw'c'mon!!! You again? You are insane! Masturbating with cactus! Why
don't you try putting hats on your radios? Maybe you cansolve the
problem! You must have lots of coo hats...

c:-|

Post by Uncle Al
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf

[f***@beethoven.com]

So at this point sources of telepathy can be enumerated as follows:

1) by ethnic ability
2) by individual mutation
3) by by individual ability (recessive)
4) by birth traume or other traumas
5) by external training
6) by meditation or self training
7) by accidents
8) sense loss
9) drug use
10) extereme situations
11) medication
...

[f***@beethoven.com]

So at this point sources of telepathy can be enumerated as follows:

1) by ethnic ability
2) by individual mutation(s)
3) by individual ability (recessive genes)
4) by birth trauma or other traumas
5) by external training (touching or magnetization)
6) by meditation or self training
7) by accidents or war
8) by sense loss
9) by drug use
10) by medication (secondary reactions)
11) by extreme situations
12) by illnesses
13) by ageing
14) by love or other two poeple relationships


Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[Uncle Al]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
The actual areas of the brain that participate in the transmission of
radio signals (assuming EM again;

[snip]

Hey stooopid - bandwidth. Cerebral electroenephalographic output is
5-20 Hz. Divide that up amidst 6 billion brains, then halve the
result to accommodate uplink and downlink.

Idiot. Your spewings make Project Sanguine look positively...
sanguine.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Uncle Al

Post by f***@beethoven.com
The actual areas of the brain that participate in the transmission of
radio signals (assuming EM again;

[snip]
Hey stooopid - bandwidth. Cerebral electroenephalographic output is
5-20 Hz. Divide that up amidst 6 billion brains, then halve the
result to accommodate uplink and downlink.

Is that long, slow waves? Plus a restricted ability... Hey ! You
contributed positively! If there were lots of telepaths... there would
be no or few telepaths! But mind that it is not taht many brains
lumoed just like that! The encodings are based on language, many
emotions are shared, direct links can be established by adding to
messages personal information, the encoding may be more or less
efficient, there are infinitely many tunings in that band... etc. More
on this later.

Post by Uncle Al
Idiot. Your spewings make Project Sanguine look positively...
sanguine.

Are you gothic? BTW, what happened to the gothics? They were kind of
very visible... (vistosos)

[o***@gmail.com]

If there is cause and effect. And equal and opposite reaction. Then
for every intention there is counter-intention? And what of the
intention of one against the counter-intentions of many (family, tribe,
society?). Or is the opposite of intention, non-intention (inaction)
or intention-supression (activity) or pre-tension (intention without
power, or ill intentioned or hallowed intentions, anything falling
short of an "effect" in so many words a dud)?

***@gmail.com

[f***@beethoven.com]

For instance, is this madness or the need of an unwanted Reality? Can
be read by a base other than normal counting (you'll need an app to
read it):

49, 20, 61, 6D, 20, 44, 61, 6E, 69, 6C, 6F, 20, 4A, 6F, 73, 65, 20, 42,
6F, 6E, 73, 69, 67, 6E, 6F, 72, 65, 20, 61, 6E, 64, 20, 42, 69, 73, 74,
72, 61, 69, 6E, 20, 69, 73, 20, 6E, 6F, 74, 20, 42, 75, 73, 68

42, 69, 73, 74, 72, 61, 69, 6E, 20, 67, 6F, 74, 20, 6D, 79, 20, 70, 72,
69, 76, 69, 6C, 65, 67, 65, 73, 20, 62, 79, 20, 73, 61, 79, 69, 6E, 67,
20, 68, 65, 20, 69, 73, 20, 42, 6F, 6E, 73, 69, 67, 6E, 6F, 72, 65

Danilo J Bonsignore previously Fabrizio J Bonsignore

[dwacon]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
What must be acknowledged is that telepathy as a natural function of
the brain depends on the unconscious subsytem that receives and decodes
the signals being connected with the rational language processing
subsystem of the brain; the brain must pay attention instead of
disregarding the signals as mere noise, a natural process given that we
rely since children on spoken language, therefore linking through
learning the labguage processing areas to the rational, aware,
conscious cortex.

Long run-on sentences can be avoided by telepathically transmitting your
thoughts... unless you happen to be Mentok® The Mind TakerT... and in such
instance you must be lit with a translucent yellow-ish light and have a
trumpet riff play...
--
Runaway Bride Mania... Check it out!
Only at: http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709







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[f***@beethoven.com]

So at this point sources of telepathy can be enumerated as follows:

1) by ethnic ability
2) by individual mutation(s)
3) by individual ability (recessive genes)
4) by birth trauma or other traumas
5) by external training (touching or magnetization)
6) by meditation or self training
7) by accidents or war
8) by sense loss
9) by drug use
10) by medication (secondary reactions)
11) by extreme situations (emotional outbreaks...)
12) by illness (real madness)
13) by ageing
14) by love or other two people close relationships

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

[Another lost post... three subsystems, impossibility to read
intentions as they are revealed as acts {like revealed preferences of
economics}]

From an evolutive point of view, the development of telepathy as a

survival advantage tool while ageing has an added benefit in that, as
mobility is impaired by age, this ability allows stranded people to
keep in touch and gather help in case of need. A model of man as a
gregrious animal is assumed, as well as a rough, primitive, dangerous
environment, the kind people evolved in. So the development of
telepathy adds to the survival advantage of the individual and helps
maintain the cohesion of a hunting group and temporary, movable camps.
Since verbal speech has better performance during social intercourse
and is parallel to this medium of exchange, it is to be expected a
diminution of the telepathic ability during the young years, after it
is used as an added tool to learn language, recovering later as, in a
primitive environment, aged individuals, already tired by the
environment would tend to remain in camp. This model of activity with
middle age (for the times) hunters, helped by elder (for the times)
stable campers, has the added evolutive benefit of increasing
concomitantly the life span of the community, as elder men would
dedicate themselves to procreation while the younger support the group.
This is the usual moddel of tribe, as exemplified in the American
indians (although by that time they were already living in big
communities and a milder environment): young warriors (from puberty to
around thirty something) and shamans and elders (abnove forty and more)
with young women and children. It would be this experienced
individuals, protected in the midst of the group, those who would guide
the dispersed hunters in successful communities, at the same time
spreading the longevity genes (more intelligence and successful
experience) to the next generation. Telepathioc ability and longevity
would grow together along the age variable.

(5:41 F:fo an Esperanto, NY)

(Mathematics is particular in the sense that it is a mechanical tool,
while creative mathematicians dedicate themselves to create more
mathematical, abstract tools. )

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore
(Danielo)

[f***@beethoven.com]

It is very important to acknowledge that, being telepathy a natural
ability *by force*, stunting this ability has an adverse effect on
human relationships! It should be evident by now that the brain and the
mind do have an effect on the surrounding "ambient" by their very being
there, since they act and are formed as an electric field, haviing
influence on the surrounding EM radiation at least. And some of this
effect has emotional content! So stunting telepathy would make
interacting humans be less aware of the emotions of others, as those
emotions would have to be deduced through external cues rather than
deduced AND felt through telepathy! Here telepathy is considered in the
same way as a magnet orders the particles of metals, influencing them
from afar.

Empathy is thus an inherent facet of telepathy and an important factor
to keep human relationships within gregarious, sympathetic terms! It is
easier to let the "field" generated by a person to influence directly
the perceptions of other people than to dedicate cognition processing
to deduced those same emotions, when through reason and language acts
can be used to hide the real contents of a mind...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
It is very important to acknowledge that, being telepathy a natural
ability *by force*, stunting this ability has an adverse effect on
human relationships! It should be evident by now that the brain and the
mind do have an effect on the surrounding "ambient" by their very being
there, since they act and are formed as an electric field, haviing
influence on the surrounding EM radiation at least. And some of this
effect has emotional content! So stunting telepathy would make
interacting humans be less aware of the emotions of others, as those
emotions would have to be deduced through external cues rather than
deduced AND felt through telepathy! Here telepathy is considered in the
same way as a magnet orders the particles of metals, influencing them
from afar.
Empathy is thus an inherent facet of telepathy and an important factor
to keep human relationships within gregarious, sympathetic terms! It is
easier to let the "field" generated by a person to influence directly
the perceptions of other people than to dedicate cognition processing
to deduced those same emotions, when through reason and language acts
can be used to hide the real contents of a mind...
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

As a mind exercise, considering the different kinds of telepathy
implied in this series, several colored directed graphs can be written
down and a categorization of configurations devised to research the
different possibilities telepathy provides for long distance human
interaction, its uses and abuses. Note that these configurations can be
used for different purposes, according to the flows of information, and
the resultant graphs can be used as a tool to research the effects of
telepathy in real situations and distinguish it from fake situations or
when it is being used to abuse, as well as for useful situations. The
resultant graphs may be compared to actual sociometric studies to
discover similarities (as an experimental exercise) and maybe identify
the effects of telepathy.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[o***@gmail.com]

Why not form a directed graph in the form SVO and add in
indirect/direct object and propositions?

***@gmail.com

[f***@beethoven.com]

On remote vision, the thread was closed
9. ***@yahoo.com Jun 17, 3:57 am hide options

Newsgroups: ny.general, dc.general, sci.skeptic, seattle.general,
la.general
From: ***@yahoo.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 17 Jun 2005 00:57:10 -0700
Local: Fri,Jun 17 2005 3:57 am
Subject: Re: Possibility of Remote vision
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You're assuming that it is a physical sense which has to go through the

same channel as light would when we see something in the real world.
That's just now how it'd work. And the proof is you can think of other

senses. Is it possible to induce a physical sensation in a person
through suggestion/hypnosis? Yes. This means that the senses are
translated into some intimediary form within the brain (not surprising)

which can be duplicated without actual physical sensation. Othwerwise
it'd be impossible to have a vivid dream.

Oh most certainly! I am assuming EM as the medium vehicle, though it
may be something more basic, like some kind of quantic effect or tunnel
effect (information being transmitted through the very dynamic of
matter and energy transformations). In fact, it is very easy to think
of a remote nose. The fact is that the brain has to encode/decode
whatever it receives through the senses, so if yo ucan induce the same
encoding, by force it will interpreted by the brain as the real input!
This is what Hume and others thought of and discussed. SO you can have
somebody in some place smelling somthing strong, transmitting it, and
the person that rceives it will smell the same thing! No distinction
would be possible without recurring to instrumentation. ANd the
receptor can also be a transmiter, so several people around would also
experience the same smell, without any real molecule being present. In
short, you can make somebody smell like whatever you want, fromdop and
shit to azahar and myrrh... a remote nose. It would explin why anosmic
people like me can somethines perceive odours... a few months ago I
would believe it was cold weather, but now I noticed it happens when I
go near certain people, strangers, and the odour goes away when I move
away from them, yet I feel it like being in me, and when going back to
the same spot, the odour is banished, even if it is strong.

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
On remote vision, the thread was closed

Remote vision operates on the same principle as other forms of mind to
mind transmission, and has the same problems. In this case, the problem
consists in distinguishing images from real life from those imagined
and those memorized. NOte that the ecnoding in his case must be more
complex because of the quantity of information, but at the same time
since this is a very basic function of the brain, it must be very
efficient.

In principle there is no way to distinguish these sources. Yet, given
that memory consists of very digested pieces of information, images
from memory would tend to be very clear and life like, though maybe
some details would be lost, while imagined images would have either
fantasy motives or be very clear and detailed, like cartoons! The fact
is that real time images would recquire a direct bypass to the
emission, and being real life, but processed first by the brain, would
arrive with either a lag or in lumps, like still frames of a moovie. It
would also be possible for these images to be rather diffuse, as the
complexity of real life almost guarantees that some or even very
important aspects of the image received by the senses are completed by
the brain or included as gestalts, that is, they are not directly
perceived but rather are "constructed" by the brain. Of course, it
could be that in dreams this mages would acquire a different texture
and even be TV like, as most of the brain would be in rest and
dedicated to the process of imaging and ideation that dreams imply...

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[Michael Gray]

Post by f***@beethoven.com

Post by f***@beethoven.com
On remote vision, the thread was closed

Remote vision operates on the same principle as other forms of mind to
mind transmission, and has the same problems.

:
Yes.
None of them work.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Since telepathy is a form of communication that can develop at any
time, it is evident that people with disabilities will end up
developing this ability in teh measure that their disablity doesn't
allow them to be in touch woth reality the same way people without
disablities can. Particularly, cerebral palsy, blindness, child
diseases like autism and others can make a person go int ohimself and,
eventually, discover the faculty to speak to others through the mind
(natural ability in populations woudl also help. This can be the real
source for the pschitic experioences of schizos, or recent telepaths,
in the measure that most of the messages will eventually be colored by
this people in tehir worlds of fantasy. SO a dynamic can be established
in which an individual begins receiving "messages" from sane
individuals, controlled telepaths, and once the "new kid in the block
is known", other telepaths enter in the conversation. Because of its
descentralized and global nature it is good only for short
communications, but disabled people will have a world of fantasy of
thwir own! A normal person, beginning to be a telepath and not willing
to see a psychiatrist, can eventually fall in this worlds of fantasy,
in the measure in that the story makes sense or is a continued
conversation...

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[Michael Gray]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
Since telepathy is a form of communication that can develop at any
time...

Well then, why hasn't it yet?

[f***@beethoven.com]

A normal, "sane" individual receiving the first messages will act in a
normal way, particularly if those messages are not relevant for that
individual (considering that it is a willful effort in those cases when
it is not a natural ability manifesting itself). AT this point it is
easy to keep the voices controlled and just disregard them, but as time
progresses, if the messages continue in frequency or density, the
individual unwilling to consider himself ill in the usual term may end
up believeing in the content of those messages, eventually substituting
unknowns received from this channel by sure "facts", gradually losing
touch with actual factual reality. If the content of those messages is
credible and cannot be corroborated (reality baths), a whole new
cosmovision can emerge that will conflict with the local reality of
that individual, a conflict which, in case that the contact continues
(for instance, the subject begins to talk back), can begin to disrupt
the activities of the person. In the end, unless the individual
recognized the purposes or the real target of the messages, his/her
behaviour will assume the characteristics of what is called psychosis.
An individual who has been subjected to a conmversation of this kind,
particularly if it is a concerted conversation and seem srelevant, will
end up acting in whole new forms, by granting those contents a high
degree of truth, at which point, even without receiving more messages
through this channel, that person will be convinced and will hold a new
"belief" that will color activities while the individual does not
realize the real truth value of the new belief...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
A normal, "sane" individual receiving the first messages will act in a
normal way, particularly if those messages are not relevant for that
individual (considering that it is a willful effort in those cases when
it is not a natural ability manifesting itself). AT this point it is
easy to keep the voices controlled and just disregard them, but as time
progresses, if the messages continue in frequency or density, the
individual unwilling to consider himself ill in the usual term may end
up believeing in the content of those messages, eventually substituting
unknowns received from this channel by sure "facts", gradually losing
touch with actual factual reality. If the content of those messages is
credible and cannot be corroborated (reality baths), a whole new
cosmovision can emerge that will conflict with the local reality of
that individual, a conflict which, in case that the contact continues
(for instance, the subject begins to talk back), can begin to disrupt
the activities of the person. In the end, unless the individual
recognized the purposes or the real target of the messages, his/her
behaviour will assume the characteristics of what is called psychosis.
An individual who has been subjected to a conmversation of this kind,
particularly if it is a concerted conversation and seem srelevant, will
end up acting in whole new forms, by granting those contents a high
degree of truth, at which point, even without receiving more messages
through this channel, that person will be convinced and will hold a new
"belief" that will color activities while the individual does not
realize the real truth value of the new belief...

The moment the hidden channel is open, the individual is automatically
catapulted to a double source of information, the "schizo" of
classsical psychiatry and psychology. There is the normal, factual
world of the five senses (including TV and radio), and there is the
hidden channel of telepathy. But while sources can be readily located
and identified in normal senses, in telepathy the real sources of
information cannot be located that easily... It turns into a semantic
construction: it is language without a referent, no immediate referent
(though different from radio, which is a structured channel), where
communications flow freely among unkown parties, whose

(and they keep insisting... I cannot go on without fear of being
considered a plagiarist when I am the source!)

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com

Post by f***@beethoven.com
A normal, "sane" individual receiving the first messages will act in a
normal way, particularly if those messages are not relevant for that
individual (considering that it is a willful effort in those cases when
it is not a natural ability manifesting itself). AT this point it is
easy to keep the voices controlled and just disregard them, but as time
progresses, if the messages continue in frequency or density, the
individual unwilling to consider himself ill in the usual term may end
up believeing in the content of those messages, eventually substituting
unknowns received from this channel by sure "facts", gradually losing
touch with actual factual reality. If the content of those messages is
credible and cannot be corroborated (reality baths), a whole new
cosmovision can emerge that will conflict with the local reality of
that individual, a conflict which, in case that the contact continues
(for instance, the subject begins to talk back), can begin to disrupt
the activities of the person. In the end, unless the individual
recognized the purposes or the real target of the messages, his/her
behaviour will assume the characteristics of what is called psychosis.
An individual who has been subjected to a conmversation of this kind,
particularly if it is a concerted conversation and seem srelevant, will
end up acting in whole new forms, by granting those contents a high
degree of truth, at which point, even without receiving more messages
through this channel, that person will be convinced and will hold a new
"belief" that will color activities while the individual does not
realize the real truth value of the new belief...

The moment the hidden channel is open, the individual is automatically
catapulted to a double source of information, the "schizo" of
classsical psychiatry and psychology. There is the normal, factual
world of the five senses (including TV and radio), and there is the
hidden channel of telepathy. But while sources can be readily located
and identified in normal senses, in telepathy the real sources of
information cannot be located that easily... It turns into a semantic
construction: it is language without a referent, no immediate referent
(though different from radio, which is a structured channel), where
communications flow freely among unkown parties, whose
(and they keep insisting... I cannot go on without fear of being
considered a plagiarist when I am the source!)
Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

Just ideas: once the nature of the phenomenon is realized, each
distinguishable source will be viewed as a hub of information, since it
cannot be known who will receive the messages once the schizo gap is
bridged, though it is to be expected that at least part of the message
will be transmitted.

Crickets! The sound of the legs, synchronized to neural activations,
making resonance with the body (?)

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Just ideas: once the nature of the phenomenon is realized, each
distinguishable source will be viewed as a hub of information, since it
cannot be known who will receive the messages once the schizo gap is
bridged, though it is to be expected that at least part of the message
will be (re)transmitted.

Crickets! The sound of the legs, synchronized to neural activations,
making resonance with the body (?)

About the schizo gap, it is the lack of immediate referents what
introduces a distance between the receiver of the message and the
emissor of the message, distance which is translated as a gap between
perceived, local reality, and "told" reality, global reality.
Particularly, the origin of the voices is mostly difficult to locate,
and the distance makes it easy to ignore referents and introduce lies,
fantasies, without immediate rewards or punishments to the emissor.
Particularly, identities can be changed or impersonated quite easily,
to the point where two apparently different persons are actually the
same individual. Also, telepathy enjoys the entropic qualities of
gossip chains, where the message is purposefully altered between links
of the chain, though for this channel messages may be supressed
completely, as well as repeated in such way that the perceived source
is actually

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

The significance of telepathy resides in that it implements a
centralized control over a percentage of the population at a distance.
In other words, it has the same effects as television has now, except
that the channel does involve an authority that TV lacks. Individuals
are no longer dependent on local information, but have access to global
information, that is, information beyond their immediate locality. Yet
this information cannot be corroborated, giving raise to the
possibility of misinformation, rumor, and manipulation. BUt also to the
possibility of making scores of unrelated individuals act synchronized
trough commands given at a distance...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

[Some fifteen posts I can include after this posts]

[f***@beethoven.com]

(Is anybody aware that there is somebody very probably sung my name and
being actually credited (during the last year) with what I do? That is:
deriving an income and meeting people from these posts and ideas.)

[f***@beethoven.com]

[Is anybody aware that impersonation and identity theft is too
dangerous because those individulas (groups) can commit any crime
expecting to blame the original scapegoat, so they are very likely to
act unbounded? And this has been happening to me during the last year
when I have remained isolated except for contact with a company that
fizzled and a publisher that might work].

[w***@yahoo.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
[Is anybody aware that impersonation and identity theft is too
dangerous because those individulas (groups) can commit any crime
expecting to blame the original scapegoat, so they are very likely to
act unbounded? And this has been happening to me during the last year
when I have remained isolated except for contact with a company that
fizzled and a publisher that might work].

Fabrizio Bonsignore:
On May 9, 1999, the Mexican Policia Judicial Federal (PJF) issued a
warrant for your arrest for selling and distributing narcotics on
Mexican territory. I have been informed that there is a group of bounty
hunters looking for you, as we speak. They think you are still in New
York, and there is a large bounty for your head. Please be very
careful. They are closing in on you...

I have some information re the agents that are after you. A friend in
law enforcement told me that some judiciales were questioning a
musician named Roberto Valero-Valdez, a.k.a. Matt or Matto. This same
judiciales once took Belinda to the police HQ and fucked her very hard
until she fainted. Then they fucked her in the ass. I´ll keep you
posted.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Yeah, by now I know, but I also know it is not true, that the bounty
hunters area ctually thieves and that accusation is just the excuse by
the people who pressed it to get my intellectual property capital and
use it to launder money... and pretend taht tey are actually any close
to intelligent. I wonder if Espinoza Montero is behind this... I was
seven months into my programming job by that date. But the problem is
teht aI have been since THAT DATE WHEN I MY APPARTMENT WAS ASSAULTED
TRYINGTOGET HELP FROM THE POLICE AND IT WAS THE FIRST TIME MY
APPARTMENT WAS ASSAULTED. I wonder if there is any people aware of waht
to Mexicans it means to be a legal US citizen...

Post by w***@yahoo.com

Post by f***@beethoven.com
[Is anybody aware that impersonation and identity theft is too
dangerous because those individulas (groups) can commit any crime
expecting to blame the original scapegoat, so they are very likely to
act unbounded? And this has been happening to me during the last year
when I have remained isolated except for contact with a company that
fizzled and a publisher that might work].

On May 9, 1999, the Mexican Policia Judicial Federal (PJF) issued a
warrant for your arrest for selling and distributing narcotics on
Mexican territory. I have been informed that there is a group of bounty
hunters looking for you, as we speak. They think you are still in New
York, and there is a large bounty for your head. Please be very
careful. They are closing in on you...
I have some information re the agents that are after you. A friend in
law enforcement told me that some judiciales were questioning a
musician named Roberto Valero-Valdez, a.k.a. Matt or Matto. This same
judiciales once took Belinda to the police HQ and fucked her very hard
until she fainted. Then they fucked her in the ass. I´ll keep you
posted.

[Bili Rubin]

<***@beethoven.com> wrote in message news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Yeah, by now I know, but I also know it is not true, that the bounty
hunters area ctually thieves and that accusation is just the excuse by
the people who pressed it to get my intellectual property capital and
use it to launder money... and pretend taht tey are actually any close
to intelligent. I wonder if Espinoza Montero is behind this... I was
seven months into my programming job by that date. But the problem is
teht aI have been since THAT DATE WHEN I MY APPARTMENT WAS ASSAULTED
TRYINGTOGET HELP FROM THE POLICE AND IT WAS THE FIRST TIME MY
APPARTMENT WAS ASSAULTED. I wonder if there is any people aware of waht
to Mexicans it means to be a legal US citizen...

Post by w***@yahoo.com

Post by f***@beethoven.com
[Is anybody aware that impersonation and identity theft is too
dangerous because those individulas (groups) can commit any crime
expecting to blame the original scapegoat, so they are very likely to
act unbounded? And this has been happening to me during the last year
when I have remained isolated except for contact with a company that
fizzled and a publisher that might work].

On May 9, 1999, the Mexican Policia Judicial Federal (PJF) issued a
warrant for your arrest for selling and distributing narcotics on
Mexican territory. I have been informed that there is a group of bounty
hunters looking for you, as we speak. They think you are still in New
York, and there is a large bounty for your head. Please be very
careful. They are closing in on you...
I have some information re the agents that are after you. A friend in
law enforcement told me that some judiciales were questioning a
musician named Roberto Valero-Valdez, a.k.a. Matt or Matto. This same
judiciales once took Belinda to the police HQ and fucked her very hard
until she fainted. Then they fucked her in the ass. IŽll keep you
posted.

Very bad creative writer of fiction or fucking nutcase? I'll go with FUCKING
NUTCASE.

[f***@beethoven.com]

So now it makes a lot more sense! The accusers, and I am not using the
mechanism of "voltear la tortilla", are either dealers or maybe...
there was a neighbor with whom things didn't really work out... but I
bet her parents... her father was quite disturbed and her mother was
what can be called a gossipy woman! I don't remember her name though.
She was going to be a veterinarian.

But by then I was already in the programming job, where the shooting
had place. My apartment was next door, so I still don't know what
happened there. And by then I was very conspicuous, as it was around
that date that I finally found rollerblades with four wheels, going all
the way from downtown to the WTC and Reforma.

ALso it explains who is keeping my mails! Narcotics agents! So that's
where it has to be sought what happened: who kept my offers, who didn't
let me get in touch with the UN, who is behind the eleven murders (some
at least) the night I arrived in NY...

Also why I arrived into Skid Row, the persecution to the other
cities... Probably Vargas found me after I began working there, the
guys in the spying in my old apartment are the ones who stole my
comoputer and threw the cat out of the window (three stories fown, she
was saved by the local jack of all trades).

And also I believe it is the same agents who stole my hard drive, who
was paying the shelters and the homeless... Lu is wouldn't know... or
maybe he did know! It depends on who accused. But it may be that why he
actually suggested the gham non for profit.

It also explains all the pressure to become a narcosatanic, all the
messages, the pressure to use drugs, the thieveries, the humiliations,
the silly arrests, the difficulty getting foodstamps and benefits...

So one at least or more of the people in the Dramatis Personae threads
are drug dealers. I would look for them in Gobernacion. BEcause, as it
should be obvious by now, if there are no advances is because nobody is
really interested in getting rid of drugs! In my case the side effects
are quite obvious and now the reason is obvious! SO I am a victim of
defamation and terrorism and bioterrorism, but in the world nothing
matters most that an accusation of drug dealing, even if unsupported
nor false. At least, it looks like it is enough to turn the American
people dumb and savage, though it should be obvious by now too that I
am going to get a fortune thanks to my ablities and knowledge! Which is
the REAL reason behind this nightmare they are living.

Now, where do I go to accuse this people? Sorry, but I don't intend to
be the scapegoat to save a bunch of ...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[Nutbuster]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
So now it makes a lot more sense! The accusers, and I am not using the
mechanism of "voltear la tortilla", are either dealers or maybe...
there was a neighbor with whom things didn't really work out... but I
bet her parents... her father was quite disturbed and her mother was
what can be called a gossipy woman! I don't remember her name though.
She was going to be a veterinarian.
But by then I was already in the programming job, where the shooting
had place. My apartment was next door, so I still don't know what
happened there. And by then I was very conspicuous, as it was around
that date that I finally found rollerblades with four wheels, going all
the way from downtown to the WTC and Reforma.
ALso it explains who is keeping my mails! Narcotics agents! So that's
where it has to be sought what happened: who kept my offers, who didn't
let me get in touch with the UN, who is behind the eleven murders (some
at least) the night I arrived in NY...
Also why I arrived into Skid Row, the persecution to the other
cities... Probably Vargas found me after I began working there, the
guys in the spying in my old apartment are the ones who stole my
comoputer and threw the cat out of the window (three stories fown, she
was saved by the local jack of all trades).
And also I believe it is the same agents who stole my hard drive, who
was paying the shelters and the homeless... Lu is wouldn't know... or
maybe he did know! It depends on who accused. But it may be that why he
actually suggested the gham non for profit.
It also explains all the pressure to become a narcosatanic, all the
messages, the pressure to use drugs, the thieveries, the humiliations,
the silly arrests, the difficulty getting foodstamps and benefits...
So one at least or more of the people in the Dramatis Personae threads
are drug dealers. I would look for them in Gobernacion. BEcause, as it
should be obvious by now, if there are no advances is because nobody is
really interested in getting rid of drugs! In my case the side effects
are quite obvious and now the reason is obvious! SO I am a victim of
defamation and terrorism and bioterrorism, but in the world nothing
matters most that an accusation of drug dealing, even if unsupported
nor false. At least, it looks like it is enough to turn the American
people dumb and savage, though it should be obvious by now too that I
am going to get a fortune thanks to my ablities and knowledge! Which is
the REAL reason behind this nightmare they are living.
Now, where do I go to accuse this people? Sorry, but I don't intend to
be the scapegoat to save a bunch of ...
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

What the fuck does this shit have to do with physics?!! For that
matter, what the fuck does this psychotic fucking nonsense have to do
with *ANY* of the newsgroups that you cross-post to? Fuck off and die
you pathetic piece of shit.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Nutbuster

Post by f***@beethoven.com
So now it makes a lot more sense! The accusers, and I am not using the
mechanism of "voltear la tortilla", are either dealers or maybe...
there was a neighbor with whom things didn't really work out... but I
bet her parents... her father was quite disturbed and her mother was
what can be called a gossipy woman! I don't remember her name though.
She was going to be a veterinarian.
But by then I was already in the <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.qklinkserver.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=76&k=programming%20job&st=1" onmouseover="window.status='Search for: programming job'; self.ql_skeyphrase='programming%20job'; if(window.event) self.ql_sevent=window.event.srcElement; self.ql_timeout = setTimeout('ql_doMouseOver(1)', 1000); self.ql_isOverLink=true; return true;" onclick="if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; ql_closeiframe(); self.ql_skeyphrase='programming%20job'; window.status='Search for: programming job';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; setTimeout('ql_closeiframe()', 1500); ">programming job</a>, where the shooting
had place. My apartment was next door, so I still don't know what
happened there. And by then I was very conspicuous, as it was around
that date that I finally found rollerblades with four wheels, going all
the way from downtown to the WTC and Reforma.
ALso it explains who is keeping my mails! Narcotics agents! So that's
where it has to be sought what happened: who kept my offers, who didn't
let me get in touch with the UN, who is behind the eleven murders (some
at least) the night I arrived in NY...
Also why I arrived into Skid Row, the persecution to the other
cities... Probably Vargas found me after I began working there, the
guys in the spying in my old apartment are the ones who stole my
comoputer and threw the cat out of the window (three stories fown, she
was saved by the local jack of all trades).
And also I believe it is the same agents who stole my hard drive, who
was paying the shelters and the homeless... Lu is wouldn't know... or
maybe he did know! It depends on who accused. But it may be that why he
actually suggested the gham non for profit.
It also explains all the pressure to become a narcosatanic, all the
messages, the pressure to use drugs, the thieveries, the humiliations,
the silly arrests, the difficulty getting foodstamps and benefits...
So one at least or more of the people in the Dramatis Personae threads
are drug dealers. I would look for them in Gobernacion. BEcause, as it
should be obvious by now, if there are no advances is because nobody is
really interested in getting rid of drugs! In my case the side effects
are quite obvious and now the reason is obvious! SO I am a victim of
defamation and terrorism and bioterrorism, but in the world nothing
matters most that an accusation of drug dealing, even if unsupported
nor false. At least, it looks like it is enough to turn the American
people dumb and savage, though it should be obvious by now too that I
am going to get a fortune thanks to my ablities and knowledge! Which is
the REAL reason behind this nightmare they are living.
Now, where do I go to accuse this people? Sorry, but I don't intend to
be the scapegoat to save a bunch of ...
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

What the fuck does this shit have to do with physics?!! For that
matter, what the fuck does this psychotic fucking nonsense have to do
with *ANY* of the newsgroups that you cross-post to? Fuck off and die
you pathetic piece of shit.

Oh, I think there are certain homeomorphisms between the brain's
working and other physical phenomena...

[f***@beethoven.com]

So now it makes a lot more sense! The accusers, and I am not using the
mechanism of "voltear la tortilla", are either dealers or maybe...
there was a neighbor with whom things didn't really work out... but I
bet her parents... her father was quite disturbed and her mother was
what can be called a gossipy woman! I don't remember her name though.
She was going to be a veterinarian.

But by then I was already in the programming job, where the shooting
had place. My apartment was next door, so I still don't know what
happened there. And by then I was very conspicuous, as it was around
that date that I finally found rollerblades with four wheels, going all
the way from downtown to the WTC and Reforma.

ALso it explains who is keeping my mails! Narcotics agents! So that's
where it has to be sought what happened: who kept my offers, who didn't
let me get in touch with the UN, who is behind the eleven murders (some
at least) the night I arrived in NY...

Also why I arrived into Skid Row, the persecution to the other
cities... Probably Vargas found me after I began working there, the
guys in the spying in my old apartment are the ones who stole my
comoputer and threw the cat out of the window (three stories fown, she
was saved by the local jack of all trades).

And also I believe it is the same agents who stole my hard drive, who
was paying the shelters and the homeless... Lu is wouldn't know... or
maybe he did know! It depends on who accused. But it may be that why he
actually suggested the gham non for profit.

It also explains all the pressure to become a narcosatanic, all the
messages, the pressure to use drugs, the thieveries, the humiliations,
the silly arrests, the difficulty getting foodstamps and benefits...

So one at least or more of the people in the Dramatis Personae threads
are drug dealers. I would look for them in Gobernacion. BEcause, as it
should be obvious by now, if there are no advances is because nobody is
really interested in getting rid of drugs! In my case the side effects
are quite obvious and now the reason is obvious! SO I am a victim of
defamation and terrorism and bioterrorism, but in the world nothing
matters most that an accusation of drug dealing, even if unsupported
nor false. At least, it looks like it is enough to turn the American
people dumb and savage, though it should be obvious by now too that I
am going to get a fortune thanks to my ablities and knowledge! Which is
the REAL reason behind this nightmare they are living.

Now, where do I go to accuse this people? Sorry, but I don't intend to
be the scapegoat to save a bunch of ...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

It is paradoxic to consider that such ability would be
counterproductive if experienced and exploited since early childhood. A
very gifted individual would actually forfeit studies and carreer to
exploit it in the market or in other ways, leading to a very trained
and powerful individual but with little knowledge and studies. A
dangerous combination.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[Michael Gray]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
It is paradoxic to consider that such ability would be
counterproductive if experienced and exploited since early childhood. A
very gifted individual would actually forfeit studies and carreer to
exploit it in the market or in other ways, leading to a very trained
and powerful individual but with little knowledge and studies. A
dangerous combination.
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

Then how come none of these individuals who "exploit it in the
market", have not taken JREF's million bucks?.

Easy money.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Michael Gray

Post by f***@beethoven.com
It is paradoxic to consider that such ability would be
counterproductive if experienced and exploited since <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.qklinkserver.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=76&k=early%20childhood&st=1" onmouseover="window.status='Search for: early childhood'; self.ql_skeyphrase='early%20childhood'; if(window.event) self.ql_sevent=window.event.srcElement; self.ql_timeout = setTimeout('ql_doMouseOver(1)', 1000); self.ql_isOverLink=true; return true;" onclick="if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; ql_closeiframe(); self.ql_skeyphrase='early%20childhood'; window.status='Search for: early childhood';return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; if(self.ql_timeout) clearTimeout(self.ql_timeout); self.ql_isOverTip = false; setTimeout('ql_closeiframe()', 1500); ">early childhood</a>. A
very gifted individual would actually forfeit studies and carreer to
exploit it in the market or in other ways, leading to a very trained
and powerful individual but with little knowledge and studies. A
dangerous combination.
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

Then how come none of these individuals who "exploit it in the
market", have not taken JREF's million bucks?.
Easy money.

How do you know they didn't? Why take from famous individuals? How do
you know who has a fortune and who doesn't?

[Uncle Ted]

Post by f***@beethoven.com

Post by Michael Gray

Post by f***@beethoven.com
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

Then how come none of these individuals who "exploit it in the
market", have not taken JREF's million bucks?.
Easy money.

How do you know they didn't?

To date, no one has claimed the JREF's million dollar prize.

Post by f***@beethoven.com
Why take from famous individuals?

The JREF is not an individual. It is a 501(c)3 charity foundation.

Post by f***@beethoven.com
How do
you know who has a fortune and who doesn't?

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates come to mind. Donald Trump probably has a
fortune as well, but I'm sure some of that has dwindled as a result of
his casino resorts not doing too well. However, I will give Trump
credit - his is a master at the art of shameless self-promotion.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Uncle Ted

Post by f***@beethoven.com

Post by Michael Gray

Post by f***@beethoven.com
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

Then how come none of these individuals who "exploit it in the
market", have not taken JREF's million bucks?.
Easy money.

How do you know they didn't?

To date, no one has claimed the JREF's million dollar prize.

Post by f***@beethoven.com
Why take from famous individuals?

The JREF is not an individual. It is a 501(c)3 charity foundation.

Post by f***@beethoven.com
How do
you know who has a fortune and who doesn't?

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates come to mind. Donald Trump probably has a
fortune as well, but I'm sure some of that has dwindled as a result of
his casino resorts not doing too well. However, I will give Trump
credit - his is a master at the art of shameless self-promotion.

You mean the prize to prove telepathy? It is a social phenomenon,
that's why I proposed econometrics in the stock market to prove it,
plus otehr possiblities. But since it may be associated to drugs, those
prizes are actually traps to catch telepaths. So nobody will ever get
them: they would fall in the trap! On the assumption that being a
telepath is a function of drugs, so they are drug implied... If that's
what you mean.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[Uncle Ted]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
You mean the prize to prove telepathy? It is a social phenomenon,
that's why I proposed econometrics in the stock market to prove it,
plus otehr possiblities. But since it may be associated to drugs, those
prizes are actually traps to catch telepaths. So nobody will ever get
them: they would fall in the trap! On the assumption that being a
telepath is a function of drugs, so they are drug implied... If that's
what you mean.

So, what drugs will make me telepathic?

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Uncle Ted

Post by f***@beethoven.com
You mean the prize to prove telepathy? It is a social phenomenon,
that's why I proposed econometrics in the stock market to prove it,
plus otehr possiblities. But since it may be associated to drugs, those
prizes are actually traps to catch telepaths. So nobody will ever get
them: they would fall in the trap! On the assumption that being a
telepath is a function of drugs, so they are drug implied... If that's
what you mean.

So, what drugs will make me telepathic?

Haven't had time to research nor investigate, but everybody knows that
drugs lead to psychosis or something similar, and it means
schizophrenia, but schizophrenias can be explaines as explained in this
thread... SO it may be just a myth! WHo knows?

Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[Michael Gray]

Post by f***@beethoven.com

Post by Uncle Ted

Post by f***@beethoven.com
You mean the prize to prove telepathy? It is a social phenomenon,
that's why I proposed econometrics in the stock market to prove it,
plus otehr possiblities. But since it may be associated to drugs, those
prizes are actually traps to catch telepaths. So nobody will ever get
them: they would fall in the trap! On the assumption that being a
telepath is a function of drugs, so they are drug implied... If that's
what you mean.

So, what drugs will make me telepathic?

Haven't had time to research nor investigate, but everybody knows that
drugs lead to psychosis or something similar, and it means

So "everyone" knows that aspirin leads to psychosis, do they?

Post by f***@beethoven.com
schizophrenia, but schizophrenias can be explaines as explained in this
thread... SO it may be just a myth! WHo knows?
Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Michael Gray

Post by f***@beethoven.com

Post by Uncle Ted

Post by f***@beethoven.com
You mean the prize to prove telepathy? It is a social phenomenon,
that's why I proposed econometrics in the stock market to prove it,
plus otehr possiblities. But since it may be associated to drugs, those
prizes are actually traps to catch telepaths. So nobody will ever get
them: they would fall in the trap! On the assumption that being a
telepath is a function of drugs, so they are drug implied... If that's
what you mean.

So, what drugs will make me telepathic?

Haven't had time to research nor investigate, but everybody knows that
drugs lead to psychosis or something similar, and it means

So "everyone" knows that aspirin leads to psychosis, do they?

Post by f***@beethoven.com
schizophrenia, but schizophrenias can be explaines as explained in this
thread... SO it may be just a myth! WHo knows?
Fabrizio J BOnsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

Sounds like a team effort! Why don't we let Uncle Al try them al land
see when he goes psychotic under a fair definition of psychosis? But
actually it would mean illegal drugs, not drugs in general, which are
either medication or medicine, though I don't know why in English the
distinction is not being made, except, perhaps, to accuse of being
drugged even people who only used aspirin, and without telling a lie!

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J BOnsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Other possible natural telepaths that would be dangerous are autists,
down syndrome kids, cerebral palsies from childhood, blind children...
And then aged people, people with dementia, traditional shamans and
other autoctonous "priests" dedicated to their tradidtions: all of
them can aquire distorted perspectives of Reality that they would
communicate throught his channel as being THE reality, the one that
cannot be seen and cannot be corroborated and is, therefore, a great
secret... ANd as a secret it is believed.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

In its general meaning as a distributed groups channel of
communication, telepathy may play an important role in the success or
failure of sports teams, not only in the sense of empathy anomg players
and trainers or managers, but also during their performance under a
game. Phenomena such as anticipations, combinations, diversion tactics,
etc. can be traced to this ability in an environment that is hghly
stressful and full pf adrenaline, conditions which like other authors
(Desmond Morris) have pointed out, resemble that of primitive hunting
grounds and activities. A groups of evenmildly telepathic players would
have a much more better game than a group without this ability, reason
that may explain why certain countries consistently exceed in soccer
national championships, even when managers do their best effort to get
well balanced teams and players without success. Other phenomena
arising from the essential interpretation of telapthy and reality as
composed of interactive fields can explain why baseball players can
actually have average numbers higher that those expected by theory, why
baskeball players can score even in "impossible" combinations or
situations, etc. (hence the many stories and conflicts about the
(assumed) use of drugs in sports, if the myth of telepathy arising
*only* through the use of drugs is considered as the main explanation
of telepathy [stigmatization]).

Many other team activities can also be expected to succeed at a higher
rate with teams of sensitive individuals than with teams composed
exclusively of insensitive individuals.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
In its general meaning as a distributed groups channel of
communication, telepathy may play an important role in the success or
failure of sports teams, not only in the sense of empathy anomg players
and trainers or managers, but also during their performance under a
game. Phenomena such as anticipations, combinations, diversion tactics,
etc. can be traced to this ability in an environment that is hghly
stressful and full pf adrenaline, conditions which like other authors
(Desmond Morris) have pointed out, resemble that of primitive hunting
grounds and activities. A groups of evenmildly telepathic players would
have a much more better game than a group without this ability, reason
that may explain why certain countries consistently exceed in soccer
national championships, even when managers do their best effort to get
well balanced teams and players without success. Other phenomena
arising from the essential interpretation of telapthy and reality as
composed of interactive fields can explain why baseball players can
actually have average numbers higher that those expected by theory, why
baskeball players can score even in "impossible" combinations or
situations, etc. (hence the many stories and conflicts about the
(assumed) use of drugs in sports, if the myth of telepathy arising
*only* through the use of drugs is considered as the main explanation
of telepathy [stigmatization]).
Many other team activities can also be expected to succeed at a higher
rate with teams of sensitive individuals than with teams composed
exclusively of insensitive individuals.
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

It says 250 posts but I can only read 248 in this node in Nycity.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
It says 250 posts but I can only read 248 in this node in Nycity.

Another posts lost in another thread, one about balloons and pool. Or
is it the index that is not working?

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com

Post by f***@beethoven.com
It says 250 posts but I can only read 248 in this node in Nycity.

Another posts lost in another thread, one about balloons and pool. Or
is it the index that is not working?
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

The real danger of not considering schizophrenia as telepathy comes
from the very usual and probably very common scenario of totally sane
people beginning to hear voices. Knowing they are not insane (probably
after some reasonable doubts), they will per force begin paying
attention to the content of the voices. Priviledged information. But
this information is suspicious BECAUSE it is not acknowledged as being
telepathy! It is the difference between scientific knowledge (episteme)
and folkloric knowledge (doxa). The knowledge passed by these voices
will not be corroborated in real life, will very probably clash
consistently with the contents of reality (as experienced in everyday
interactions, that is, given an expected probability of interacting
with an individual and sharing contents, those contents would be
roughly shared, while telepathically acquired contents will need the
coincidence of two individuals sharing contents through this channel
AND sharing the source of that knowledge, being a more constrained,
socially speaking, reality; [this approach has to do with the
difference between local and global sharing of information, in *real
time*]).

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[m***@yahoo.com]

The knowledge passed by these voices will not be corroborated in
real life, will very probably clash consistently with the contents
of reality (as experienced in everyday interactions

Uncle Al has already pointed out clear bandwidth limitations behind any
notion of telepathy as point-to-point transmission of any sort. The
tendency of people to automatically assume it means point-to-point
transmission is, itself, a reflection of people still thinking in the
language of classical physics.

If it existence, it would NOT involve any point-to-point transference
of any kind, but would represent an instance of quantum entangement of
macroscopic states (namely, the states representing by two or more
peoples' minds) -- the very antithesis of point-to-point communication.

There were numerous instances in the recent past, when I let my Rott
sleep not too far away, when I would end up lapsing into a dream (while
still awake) just before he started moving around. The interesting
part is that the dream would always involve him running around, with
the imagined motions preceding by a small portion of a second his
actual motions, and in synchronization with them, but a sufficiently
small fraction of a second as to preclude any possibility of
communication (accounting for the latency of the speed of sound,
neurotransmissions, reaction time, actuator control, etc.).

Another more interesting circumstance occurred about a year ago. While
walking around on campus, I suddenly came on to the perception that the
feel of gravity was all wrong -- which is a dead giveaway that you're
in a dream (because you're not standing while sleeping).

I then proceeded to rise off the ground, and while taking particular
delight in noting the fear of everyone else around, grew to tremendous
proportions like a winged spectre casting a large shadow over the
ground, giving off a blood-curdling scream like the Nazgul would have,
which froze everyone in place in complete dread.

Scanning the ground below, I picked out a particularly hot coed,
swooped down on her, carried her off kicking and screaming, threw her
to the ground and ...

... at that particular moment, the dream abruptly stopped, interrupted
by the 6:00 AM timer turning on the TV.

The 6:00 AM news came on and the first item reported was that a coed at
just reported being raped ... at the very site of the dream.

[She later recanted her claim, being unable to cite the existence of
any tangible assailant behind the attack].

BWAA HAA HAA HAA HAA!!

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by f***@beethoven.com

Post by f***@beethoven.com

Post by f***@beethoven.com
It says 250 posts but I can only read 248 in this node in Nycity.

Another posts lost in another thread, one about balloons and pool. Or
is it the index that is not working?
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore\

The real danger of not considering schizophrenia as telepathy comes
from the very usual and probably very common scenario of totally sane
people beginning to hear voices. Knowing they are not insane (probably
after some reasonable doubts), they will per force begin paying
attention to the content of the voices. Priviledged information. But
this information is suspicious BECAUSE it is not acknowledged as being
telepathy! It is the difference between scientific knowledge (episteme)
and folkloric knowledge (doxa). The knowledge passed by these voices
will not be corroborated in real life, will very probably clash
consistently with the contents of reality (as experienced in everyday
interactions, that is, given an expected probability of interacting
with an individual and sharing contents, those contents would be
roughly shared, while telepathically acquired contents will need the
coincidence of two individuals sharing contents through this channel
AND sharing the source of that knowledge, being a more constrained,
socially speaking, reality; [this approach has to do with the
difference between local and global sharing of information, in *real
time*]).
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

So, continuous perception of the voices of others will eventually
convince the individual of the existence of those voices and will begin
granting then importance, even when the content of those communications
will have the quality of priviledged information, of knowledge acquired
as a priviledge and being hidden and proviledged will confer a sense of
importance... unless the individual receives help from a professional!

But then the matter presents itself: is the professional aware of the
true source of the problem? Given that this approach is basically a
social one, there is always the possiblity of finding all three
possibilities: full treatment as hallucinations, conscious and open
regarding of the problem as communications from other individuals and,
of course, the possibity and means to take advantage of the situation
(double play telepaths-psychiatrist, with the patient in between)!

In any case, as far as probable scenarios, the more common situation
seems to be that of people denying telepathy as an illness, failure to
get help (coping with the communications alone), and granting those
communications and messages the truth value of axiomatic knowledge,
that is, knowledge that is true and evident for the sole reason that is
being provided through a channel that is hidden and is perceived as
personal and magical!

In sum, very sane, mentally healthy people are subject to sudden
"paranormal" experiences which, depending on the force, content and
frequency of the communications can have highly destabilizing
consequences in an otherwise stable life, before the responsibility of
getting professional 'help' is assumed, both for the fear of being
considered a "mental health patient" and because the phenomenon will
convince the individual of experiment a situation which has little to
do with an illness. Considering, of course, that there may be many
people used to receiving messages sporadically with some value as
"social knowledge", even if it can or cannot be corroborated in common
life.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

It cannot be sufficiently stressed: the danger of telepathy is
considering it an illness, since it makes people keep it a secret, to
become afraid of going insane. That fear is actually a good solution,
which may be the reason why Flauvel (?) consider it necessary to define
it as an illness, probably after the scandal of Loudun and the abuse of
the nuns, enmessed in a culture where abuse was easy if the successful
telepath pretended to be the devil, an angel or some religion related
power.

It is this power, once the telepath target begins paying attention,
that is evidenced and grants the messages the authority necessary to
convince the target of actually doing what the telepath wants, in case
that particular telepath do want to make the target a victim or a
remotely control person.

There are several scenarios, as many as possible communications among
people, it will depend on personal capabilities and culture, giving
rise to all the phenomena well known by psychiatrists, from mutually
insulting people to domination relationships to cooperation situations,
etc. This possibilities for intercommunication are teh same as per any
other channel, except that communications here have a personal quality
and are descentralized, the source being difficult if not impossible to
locate...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

It is then a matter, when discussing telepathy among mentally sane and
sound people, to choose between fear and secrecy, by considering it an
illness, and a very grave one, or to accept the natural fact and teach
and train people on how to handle it without fear and even profitably.
This approach should be evidently the one to use, since anybody can be
subjected to a "conversation" initiated by one, or more!, telepaths.

Particularly, children are quite open and predisposed by nature to
receive the effects of telepathy, in fact, to receive the thoughts of
all people around them. It was already discussed that it is very likely
the path through which language is imbued on small children, the reason
why when children begin speaking they have already a full volcabulary,
also the reason why children suddenly can express surprising comments
and remarks, elaborate thoughts, even bad words and other phenomena
associated to the "mature child". Wouldn't it be then a mistake to not
acknowledge that straneous thoughts are unavoidable and that
considering it an illness leaves many people defenseless in case a
perturbed telepath, a true schizophrenic, contacts them? Not all people
will go to the psychiatrist, nor will understand why their children
suddenly becomes "different", or assume points of view that their
parents and near people cannot understand. Not to mention, of course,
all the cases where people develop criminals and psychotic behaviours
because they believed in the voices heard and...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[Michael Gray]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
perturbed telepath, a true schizophrenic, contacts them? Not all people
will go to the psychiatrist,
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

Heed your own words.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Michael Gray

Post by f***@beethoven.com
perturbed telepath, a true schizophrenic, contacts them? Not all people
will go to the psychiatrist,
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

Heed your own words.

Is any good a psychiatrist if he assumes the voices he hears are the
product of a sick mind? Very probably he will provide antipsychotics
and that's it. But then, what guarantee is there that the same man
won't still hear the voices but subliminally? THEN they would do real
damage. Imagine a voice you cannot hear insulting you the whole day or
at intervals and you are not aware of it! You were before the medicine,
you have a chance to know if it is true or deserved and think about it.
I would even consider the possibility that if the insults (for
instance), are true or deserved, the victim would go to the
psychiatrist, while in the other case he will just wait for them to go
away.

Imagine the case of a teen hearing voices. Unless it is very evident
for others, he won't tell, because everybody will think he is crazy so
he won't go to the psychiatrist! And he would know it is not a disease.
I bet that most schizophrenic patients are sent by others, not by their
own will (which again is a research matter the realatives of patients,
subject to statistics).

In essence, it is a social problem, not a purely psychological one. The
contents will vary and will be different themes.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Michael Gray

Post by f***@beethoven.com
perturbed telepath, a true schizophrenic, contacts them? Not all people
will go to the psychiatrist,
Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

Heed your own words.

Is any good a psychiatrist if he assumes the voices he hears are the
product of a sick mind? Very probably he will provide antipsychotics
and that's it. But then, what guarantee is there that the same man
won't still hear the voices but subliminally? THEN they would do real
damage. Imagine a voice you cannot hear insulting you the whole day or
at intervals and you are not aware of it! You were before the medicine,
you have a chance to know if it is true or deserved and think about it.
I would even consider the possibility that if the insults (for
instance), are true or deserved, the victim would go to the
psychiatrist, while in the other case he will just wait for them to go
away.

Imagine the case of a teen hearing voices. Unless it is very evident
for others, he won't tell, because everybody will think he is crazy so
he won't go to the psychiatrist! And he would know it is not a disease.
I bet that most schizophrenic patients are sent by others, not by their
own will (which again is a research matter the with relatives of
patients, subject to statistics).

In essence, it is a social problem, not a purely psychological one. The
contents will vary and will be different themes.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Michael Gray
Heed your own words.

Indeed, telepathy/schizophrenia will convince the targets more than the
idea of a disease because of the next argument. If the contents of the
voices heard is *similar* to the ways that person thinks, if those
thoughts are coincident, he won't fight then but will accept them.
There sill be positive reinforcement. For young people it may even pass
as the discovery of a new mode of thought, hearing themselves with a
different voice! There will be a tendency to believe because the
contents coincide with a cosmovision. But if the contents are very
different from the ways of thought, the beliefs of the target, then
they will immediately appear as straneous thoughs and the product of
other minds. [At least in this culture the simple idea of telepathy is
very extended, so the phenomenon will right away match the concept; in
other cultures the phenomenon may match different concepts]. There may
a moment of worry, but eventually the clash will convince the target of
receiving the thoughts of other(s). The number of people and frequency
of the messages will also be determinant. There will be a gray area, of
course, but there is a bigger probability of falling in those areas
where sanity is not an issue.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Not all people
will go to the psychiatrist, nor will understand why their children
suddenly becomes "different", or assume points of view that their
parents and near people cannot understand. Not to mention, of course,
all the cases where people develop criminals and psychotic behaviours
because they believed in the voices heard and...

followed their directive! As a general principle no orders should be
followed, no crimes should be committed, no false identities should be
assumed, no big secrets or true knowledge should be inferred and no
promises should be accepted. Since the source of the messages will be
most of the time unknown (there may be many instances of known sources,
even when some of the sources may not be totally aware of their power
to transmit), that the source will assume its responsibility according
to the messages cannot be taken for granted.
But the psychiatrist/schizophrenia approach will tend to disregard the
contents, will follow wither a chemical path or a "tell-your-life"
approach (which incidentally would benefit any criminal telepath and
other people) and unless the messages do cease the patient will stop
considering the help of the psychiatrist as being worth the while! That
help may actually be totally irrelevant! Depending on the abilities of
the source, whether there is duplex communication, etc. the source may,
in case it is a real attack (why go to the psychiatrist if the contact
doesn't bother?), cease for a while and wait for another opportunity,
once the patient is out of treatment. (It can be researched the
circumstances of successful cures and reincidence of the voices,
correlated to other aspects of the life of the patients). What is
really disturbing is that several pieces of information can leak in
unexpected ways, so the psychiatrist, in case he *knows* schizophrenia
is telepathy , can form an alliance with the source! It is then a
double victim, victimized by the source(s) and the psychiatrist to get
hold of the life of the patient! On the other hand, if the chemical
path is followed, the once patient may become defenseless against
contents poured into him by the source and of which he is not aware
anymore! The problem here is that the psychiatrist won't affect the
source! Only the target. The fact that somebody can hear "voices"
doesn't mean that he can answer and viceversa. Even if you don't hear
voices you may be subject to the directed thought of others, though
individual abilities will determine whether that contact is actually
heard clearly or subliminally.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[Michael Gray]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
It cannot be sufficiently stressed: the danger of telepathy is
considering it an illness

The real danger of telepathy is pretending that it works.
But then again, you knew I'd say that...

[f***@beethoven.com]

(last post had trouble going through)
Michael Gray wrote:

The real danger of telepathy is pretending that it works.
But then again, you knew I'd say that...

Ha! You are assuming you yourself are a telepath! That is, that you
know how to emit thought. And I can receive it wherever you are! But
you don't really know me, so your thoughts about me will be rather
fuzzy... the message would not arrive. ANd I may have been given
antipsyhoctics against my will JUST BECAUSE I mentioned this theme! You
know, there is people who "think" like that: eat you own words. LIke in
"I can show food is bad for your health: let me overfeed you". That's
why I insist that it is a social phenomena: you cannot study it like a
very objective automatic theme...

Incidentally, I wanted to go into the encoding a little more, so that
will be the content of the next post.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Michael Gray
The real danger of telepathy is pretending that it works.
But then again, you knew I'd say that...

(snip)

Post by Michael Gray
Incidentally, I wanted to go into the encoding a little more, so that
will be the content of the next post.

The main argument that motivates this text is the very simple argument
that, given the complexity of our brain and its capacity, much beyond
that of the best of our computers and even of supercomputers linked
together, (each one of us is a supercomuter), the problem of
distinguishing the small variations that the thoughts of other people
would generate in the EM fields around us from other EM variations is a
problem that falls into triviality. It is not really necessary to
peform long calculations on figures, it is just a matter of comparing
the order of the problem (input) and the order of the computational
resources available to solve that problem.

But even then what makes telepathy really feasible de facto, is the
fact that the form in which "thoughts" are transmitted assumes very
efficient and specific encoding forms.

What conforms a thought is viewed here as a certain, almost
instantaneous (first approach) pattern of activations in the brain
network, a state of neurons in the different states they can be in (it
can be abstracted to two states without problem; more states per neuron
would provide more powerful forms of computation). So we can imagine a
thought as having a certain "structure" that can almost be seen as a
wireframe, once we abstract again the neurons that are in the off state
and we remain withthise that ae in the on state. This "structure" is
the one that is reflected in other brains. Some "parts" of the
structure will match the same "parts" in another brain, inother words,
some aspect of the encoding will be mapped by the same state in some
subarea of the brain, at least in part*. The important point here is
that it is the differences what will make sense, the same way as we
tend to orient our gaze toward whatever moves, establishing some
contrast to the rest of the background; the figure will be distinguish
itself as figure because it changes with respect to the background.
Indeed, it is this differences what will be actually transmitted and
which, incidentally, can be reflected quite easily by small
fluctuations in the ionic exchanges at some levels of the brain
activity, determined, in a chaotic system being continuously updated,
by the effect of the perturbations caused by the surrounding fields.

So we can express the concept of a thought as a structure, the same way
in systems programming some informations have well determined parts
with a specific unction, like headers, contents, encryption keys,
authentication messages, etc...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore
(Oh, by the way, they said that I was already "killed"! Somebody
committed mistake, or maybe not and is just committing that mistake
right now, but not me... Whatever happens to me )

[f***@beethoven.com]

What constitutes the "structure of a thought" is more difficult to
characterize, or more exactly, what constitutes the "structure of a
*transmitable* thought". Trying to arrive at a full characterization of
this concept in terms of a workable empiric description (or
abstraction) would require extensive studies and research, some of them
based on the experience of psychiatrists and social workers, some of it
based on technological approaches to neurology, but as a matter of
principle it can be stated that the boundaries of such "object" are not
well determined nor completely deterministic. There must be some
discernible content as a matter of fact, otherwise there would be no
"communication" at all, it would be lost as pure noise or purely random
fluctuations, and this content must be in some way shared by both the
origin and the destination of the communication, otherwise the
communication would not be distinguished at such [unless, of course,
the "thought content" is so strong that it forces a working brain to
assume the same state as the transmitting brain, a mere "possibility",
since as exposed here what is transmitted may not containfull
information to reproduce exactly the intended message in the receiving
brain].

It was exposed previously that this contents can be classified to give
rise to different forms of telepathy, from the very "basic" verbal one
(classical sound schizophrenia), to more complex and more difficult to
englobe in common word-concepts, like emotions, other sensory input,
other brain-specifically states or corporal states, archetypes (for
corresponding gestalts, if they exist), in a simple to complex
hierarchy that would end in a totally indiscernible content that may
even be so individual that can only have meaning for the transmitting
brain (unconscious contents).

The other element that very probably is contained by *all*
communications is some "notion" of self and of "the other", though one
or the other may be missing according to the quality of the thought.
For instance, there is a distinction between thinking (verbalizing it)
"good morning" meant for oneself and meant for somebody else.
Considering that a thought is actually a gestalt (this distinctions
being a consequence of an analysis of a real gestalt or totality), even
when both messages would have the same structure verbally, in terms of
actual thinking pr patterns of neural activity they are totally
different! It is important to stress this point, as it is the key to
the kinds of rampant schizophrenia we commonly observe in
self-addressing monologue making individuals, and the "schizophrenias"
that would occur in more controlled, less obviously "schizophrenic"
individuals. (More about this distinctions later).

It is also somewhat obvious that several elements needed to
characterize some particular kind of content will be present de facto,
as the message would lose meaning without them. For instance (and this
point is very important too), it is impossible to think of a verbalized
communication that would not include the element of "sound pitch"; we
can imagine verbal contents, inner dialogue, but only with some
"attached" sound.

This point all is important in that thoughts transmitted from verbal
forms will very likely include this "notion" of pitch, the same way we
cannot _imagine_ a "heard" word without having some kind of voice! The
awareness of our own voice is very different from what other people
hear, without being used to our own voice in recorded form; some of the
elements that we recognize as our own "voice pitch" would actually be
included in the transmitted thought to be reconstructed as a unique,
heard voice in the target. But being essentially a matter of subtly
changing very dynamic neural patterns, making sense as patterns match
predeterminedly meaningful patterns, this implied voice pitch will
trigger *_known_* voices only if those messages include in themselves
and the message itself is the sound of that voice! The importance of
this point for analyzing and assimilating this phenomenon in real life
cases should be obvious though paradoxical: if the voice is
recognizable, more often than not will come from somebody purposefully
mimicking that pitch, while messages coming from known sources will
sound very differently, as the implied pitch is the one heard
consciously or unconsciously by the trasnmitter!

The same argument applies to other elements related to the notion of
"who sends" with respect to "who receives". The transmitted thought can
imply some personality, like feeling it is "the President" who sends
the message when actually it "impersonating" "the President",
consciously transmitting the voice, feeling, the concept/thought of
being the president and the voice. It can also imply some selfimage,
like pretending to be an angel, a priest, a devil or some other
commonly agreed figure, etc.

In short, the paradoxic result is: if it sounds like a known source, it
is not that source.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore
(If there is somebody with my name tuned a gogolaire he is an impostor
meant to keep me hidden and impersonated. Up to this point, I have
received no income and am living in utter poverty and misery, save for
the free services available in the US and maybe nowhere else... thanks
to read Dramatis Personae)

[Michael Gray]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
Many other team activities can also be expected to succeed at a higher
rate with teams of sensitive individuals than with teams composed
exclusively of insensitive individuals.

:

Yes, I suppose for once you are right. (About the expecting higher
success rates)
One cannot, after all, expect lower success rates than ZERO.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Still more on telepathy

It is evident by now that there is no such thing as a simple
&quot;message&quot;, like a text message, heard or perceived internally
by a schizophrenic. IT is a complex phenomenon, falling in the field of
semiotic. There is the informational content of the message,
(informational only in the sense of making &quot;some&quot; sense, that
it can actually be perceived and distinguished, not in the sense that
it actually conforms to some outer reality or that it can have any
usefulness for the receiver), and then there is the
&quot;envelope&quot;, the form of the message and other elements in a
complex gestalt. It is easier to think of it in terms of
&quot;voices&quot;, the classical complain of schizophrenic, even when
other kinds of stimulus considered to have their origin beyond the
normal scope of our senses may be distinguished, or not at all! Even
without a direct, conscious experience of this phenomenon, it should be
evident too that for the receiving schizophrenic/telepath the origin of
the verbal message will be important, adding another level of
complexity to the phenomenon, as it is not only the &quot;thought&quot;
that is transmitted but also the interaction between this external
thought-direct stimulus and what the individual makes of it, or the
thought about the thought. Yet in terms of &quot;voices&quot; at all
times a personality, another person is implied, in opposition, for
instance, to odours or images, which can be conceived as being received
or experienced per se, witout reference to any other individual. This
&quot;personality&quot; will be formed by elements implied in the
original thought and by other elements added by the perceiving brain.
The proper act of &quot;acknowledging&quot; the message brings in a
conscious element of the receiving personality; it is thought about
thought at all times. The point to establish here is that we have a
complex &quot;object&quot; which will be &quot;realized&quot; from
partial, noisy, uncertain and unknown stimulus, even unexpected, and
this object will end up being perceived not as a &quot;message&quot;
but as an individual-transmitting-a-direct-message to the receiving
individual. It can then be understood that any elements contained in
the message with reference to the information
&quot;this-individual-sending-a-message&quot; will trigger a more
direct recognition of the sending-individual the more acquainted is the
receiver with the actual personality of the sender.

In other words, there is a pattern matching process ongoing in this
phenomenon; the more known elements are included in the message and the
more these elements match the concepts or perceptions the receiver has
of the sender, the more easier will the identification of a particular
source, while the less _actual_ knowledge the receiver has of the
sender the more impersonal will that message sound, bringing in what
can be called a &quot;synthetic&quot; personality that will be formed
by giving &quot;meaning&quot; to the elements included in the message
as they match other elements in the worldview of the receiver. So, for
instance, any implied sense of authority in the message will be
eventually &quot;perceived&quot;, matched, by the notions of authority
the receiver has til a personality is perceived and formed.

Again paradoxically, assuming an effort is made to communicate a
thought by a telepath, any elements of the self will be so implied that
there will be a failure to transmit them! It is like, knowing it is
you, you don't have to identify yourself! Selfidentifying elements will
be missing from the added elements of the message the more authentic is
the message, yet *there must be an address to identification content to
a given message*&quot;.

According to this arguments, it can be stated that at least for
verbalized messages the minimum contents will be that of the message
itself and that of the intended target. Other elements will be quite
contingent, though it is very likely that there must be some perception
of the sender _sending_ the verbal message, which in terms of verbal
messages would contain at least some elements of the &quot;sound
envelope&quot; of the sender's voice, unless, of course, an effort is
made to include the *sound* of a particular voice as the message
itself!

The complexity of this discussion should point to the difficulty to
identify actual sources, particularly since, given the assumptions of
people talking to people, the whole gamut of human communication
problems has to be included, and very specifically those of
authentication and identification of the sender, not to mention the
*reasons* for sending a particular message to a particular individual.
Knowing people, it is very probable that the stronger the desire to
imply a personality the less probable is that personality is for real!

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore
(the quot's come from the mail I sent to my email account)

[f***@beethoven.com]

A minimum (verbal) communication would assume a form like:

(message+message_envelope)+intended_target

The receiver would first identify the intended_target, self implying
the more the intended_part element matches his own selfperception (a
little caveat later). Then the message will be identified as a verbal
communication by the form of the message_envelope (voice), triggering
the verbalization neural activation patterns implied by the message
element. The message_envelope, voice, will per force contain elements
of the sender's selfperception of his voice. Since by experience we
know that we don't sound the same to us than to others, it will be next
to impossible that the mesage_envelope of a known voice will trigger
recognition of the *memory* of that voice! Only general elements will
match, such as high or low pitch and a synthetic voice will be formed.
But if the message assumes the form

((message+voice)+message_envelope)+intended_target

it is to be expected that the added, inner voice element will (in a
gestaltic, holistic way) add up to the message_envelope element to form
and trigger a characteristic voice, which in case of being well known
by the receiver will sound as that well known individual. But it
requires an effort, it would require even recordings to be able to make
somebody receive a particular telepath's voice as is! This argument
points to the all important problem of identifying the actual
informational contents to determine the source of the message, which,
of course, can include voices formed by the own receiver's brain, a
possibility though that will be the more likely the more a message is
repeated, creates associations and is memorized...

Note that the intended_target element can be very specific or very
general. It is to be expected that the more specific it is, the more a
telepath makes an effort to reach a particular individual, the more
probability there is that only that individual will receive it, while
the less specific a message is the more individuals will perceive
(eventually). This notion is what lies behind practices that require a
representation or a picture of somebody else, practives like voodoo and
hoodoo, spiritual healing, magic in general, etc. Also, it should be
considered that it is this precise notion what explains the Muslim
prohibitions to represent human and animal figures! [It was pointed out
that one of the sources of telepathy must be ethnic ability; the
Muslim's prohibition would be indirect evidence that their ethnic may
be naturally aware and capable of strong telepathic phenomena, at least
in the age when The Qurain began being transmitted]. In a way, in order
for thought transmissions to occur the target must be known by the
sender, or a good representation given to the actual sender. And it
should be obvious that the less specific is an intended_target element,
the more people may be able to receive that message, up to the point
where the thought is so general that there is no intended_target, in
which case very probably the whole message will be lost as noise
without causing any resonance in any other people's brain. Also, the
more generaly appealing or easy to understand the message content is,
the more successful its transmission would be.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

Voice messages have added interest not only because of tehir complexity
but because it is the most obvious and acknowledged symptom of
schizophrenia. Verbal communication makes many assumptions and has
elements that are not necessary in other kind of sensorial
communication, particularly the implied existence of interlocutors, two
individuals exchanging information. Thus, in the last "formula", the
whole message structure is infused iwth an underlying, all important
and unnoticed self_image element, the most hidden, as the telepath
initiating the communication is aware of himself! Naturally, the
personality projected would be that which the telepath considers to be
his own personality, expressed in any elements that, personally or
socially, represent such personality and can be incorporated in some
element of the message structure, namely, the message_envelope. So a
more complete message structure would be:

self_image[((message+voice)+message_envelope)+intended_target]

Considering that the voice element can actually be missing, making:

self_image[((message)+message_envelope)+intended_target]

...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore
[Can anybody understand that their strategy is to make me fail the more
I prove to be myself? Who is being dogmatic and inflexible? Not me, I
am based on simple principles: I have a right to have my identity
respected and to be believed. Maybe, even, to be accused straight to
the face. I don't rely on somebody else being powerful, I rely on my
own abilities and personality, personality that developed from
developing and using my abilities, such as this writings... It should
be fairly evident. But I am not in te place were things are taking
place! Not yet, it seems...]

[f***@beethoven.com]

self_image[((message)+message_envelope)+intended_target]


Now lets further take the message element and distinguish it in two
aspects: content and form. The message proper is the content, what
coloquially is understood as &quot;"a message"&quot;. But its delivery
requires other elements that add to the message without being
considered part of it normally; in a way they are invisible. Continuing
with verbality as motivation, the content consists of _what_ it wants
to be said, while the form can be identified as words proper. There are
other ways to &quot;"say"&quot; something, without using words as the
form, but there are also ways to use &quot;"words"&quot; (independently
of content), and it is also (almost) independent of the
_message_envelope_ for those words!

Here arises the distinction and similarities with writing. One
particular *content* (a what), expressed in the *form* of words, can be
expressed verbally and/or written down as *message_envelope*. And the
vehicle then includes the *_medium_* through which this content is
communicated, or delivered to the receptor (which can be the same
sender!). Note the complex relationship between form and
message_envelope and how they can be separated. And also note that the
self_image element is also complexly affecting each and all parts of
each particular communication!, the reason why it is the self_image
element that which surrounds the whole &quot;"equation"&quot;. So
self_image shows itself in the choice of paper, the handwriting,
generally in what is called style, in the case of handwritten
communications.

In the case of verbal communications self_image shows itself in more
subtle and limited manners, as choice of words mainly, while aspects
such as intonation and volume flow between form and content and
expressions of self_image, varying in importance from one communication
to communication.

self_image[((content+form)+message_envelope)+intended_target]

...

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

[Didn't post at five, dare come here to the visitors center before five
to hear the Mexican murderers; til now they have confessed tohave
killed like 29 people, including my other, not counting my cats. And I
am still waiting to have cash benefits to make a few phone calls.. but
have to go through a hearing first...]

From the previous formula several inferences can be made, even if, by

its own nature, it is impossible to separate rigurously certain
elements in all situation, or rather, to correctly clasify some
elements that can belong to at least two elements. The complexity
arises because of the several possibilities for reception-emission of
thought fields that can characterize types of telepaths/schizophrenics,
plus the particular form of the vehicle thoughts transmission assumes.
The key concept here is that of encoding, which form by necessity only
makes sense to a &quot;device&quot; similar to that emissor. To help
characterize it, the analogy to radio transmission shows that while we
use a standard, lineal, frequency modulation/amplitude modulation
encoding to transmit over waves what is essentially a 3-D mechanical
(movement) phenomenon, in the case of thought transmissions the
encoding is not lineal nor easily describable by simple formulas. It
is, or must be, a complex transformation (modulation) of surrounding EM
radiation (at least) by the dynamic states of an esentially chaotic and
highly non-lineal system, as described by the principles of statistical
mechanics of magnetization phenomena.

Note that from the point of view of a hypothetic objective &quot;EM
observer&quot;, a recorder, the signals contained in a spectrum of
frequencies would present no particuar order or &quot;meaning&quot;.
But once those signals are passed through an adequate processor,
whatever information is contained therein will be made explicit,
considering here that &quot;adequate processor&quot; will be any device
matching, or knowing, the particular encoding used by the source of
that information. As a counterexample, take the case of radio emission
stars, whose &quot;output&quot; appears as &quot;no particular
pattern&quot; to our radioastronomers, even when conceptually it can
contain very precise information in encodings that to our
radiotelescopes and computers are nothing more than &quot;noise&quot;
(without assuming there *is* a message contained therein).

It can then be understood that any thought transmission need only to
provide a minimum of ordered information decipherable by another brain
to convey its message, which, from the point of view of the receiver,
means that only a small part of the message needs to be actually
deciphered to consider it a message. The principle assumed here is that
of efficiency or minimum matching, in that what will end up affecting
the neural activity of the receiver need not be but the essential, well
known elements to trigger recognition, though the more the actual
message matches what can be called well known patterns or neural
activations, the more information will be extracted from the message.

Once this is understood and accepted, it is easily understandable how
certain elements will fit in certain messages and how they will be
interpreted by receptive brains-processors. Probably the most important
point here will be that message_envelope element will contain elements
that can be recognized immediately as &quot;voice&quot;, even if the
*particular* voice encoded may only be accesible AND reproducible by an
individual who has actually formed an internal representation of that
voice, UNLESS, the &quot;message&quot; is inherently the envelope of a
voice, in which case, this information would fall into the form element
of the message instead of in the message_envelope. This will be made
clearer below.

It is also more or less evident that the self_image element will be
transmitted almost automatically, but in order for that element to be
recognized as such, the receptor must already have enough matching
points to recognize the self_image element instead of constructing (or
ignoring) a personality, UNLESS, again, that self image is the message
per se...

Similar notes can be made to the other elements, to arrive at complex
possibilities for what can only be called &quot;multimedia&quot;
messages! But a point can be firmly established: the more two
individuals know each other, the more elements will be easily
deciphered with least effort, while the more stranger two individuals
are, the least elements will be common and the more a synthetic
personality (which may even be perceived as no personality) will be
constructed in the effort of doing the least effort (pun intended).
Note also that particular voice qualities may be inferred from the form
element, but then, since a particular &quot;voice&quot; is as part of
the message as the words (content) themselves, there will be no
personality attached to it, having more importance elements of the form
element as intonation.

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

One telepath to another telepath: "Imagine if we could all SPEAK! What
a CCCHHHAAAOOOSSS"
-a long time ago, before chat rooms 8)

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[f***@beethoven.com]

A note: a full duplex telepath can receive some information and
immediately follow it with a second information, effectively creating
an association. Depending on the awareness of the source of the first
information (or even with independence), the association formed would
eventually suplant the first information, leaving a memory impression
of having had, actually, the second information as the real perception.
The first information would be lost, remaining only the association.
Eventually an individual subjected to this effect would forget the
first informtion (real) and act according to the second information
(association). This may be the origin of many *repeated* voices, so
that initial contacts by another minds would eventually be suplanted by
memories of those contacts or their associations. This can happen with
images and verbal communications, so that impressions differ after the
fact, like remembering a picture with an imperssion different to that
which the picture actually produces on first sight.

[Other themes here later: types of communication crossed with semantic
analysis; speech elements; relation to statistical mechanics; sound vs.
EM, historical solutions against telepathy; etc.]

Fabrizio J Bonsignore now Danilo J Bonsignore

[Luna Sea]

Post by f***@beethoven.com
A note: a full duplex telepath can receive some information and
immediately follow it with a second information, effectively creating
an association.

What about a half duplex telepath? Or transmit and receive telepath? Or
receive only telepath? Or transmit only telepath? Or just plain stupid
telepath? Or moron telepath-etic?

[d***@hotmail.com]

I say Danilo J Bonsignore for President of the United States. He's
wasteful enough to do a good job.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by d***@hotmail.com
I say Danilo J Bonsignore for President of the United States. He's
wasteful enough to do a good job.

Too young. Yet. Hope this is stillb eing read in the WH.

[f***@beethoven.com]

Post by Luna Sea

Post by f***@beethoven.com
A note: a full duplex telepath can receive some information and
immediately follow it with a second information, effectively creating
an association.

What about a half duplex telepath? Or transmit and receive telepath? Or
receive only telepath? Or transmit only telepath? Or just plain stupid
telepath? Or moron telepath-etic?

[I wonder if it is Dr Luna. He would be playing dumb]

I still don't arrive to that part. It is a matter of brain
interconnections and bypasses. Will post about it in the next days.

[Luna Sea]

stop cross posting